Well, that’s great for you.
But just because you don’t have a problem with the current state of the Open World content progression, doesn’t mean there isn’t a problem for many other players.
Why ‘doesn’t it feel fair’? I really don’t get that sort of thinking.
They’re not doing anything special. They just enjoy a different type of content.
It’s a good thing because, no matter how much you want “progression”, you shouldn’t get that progression UNLESS you are PROGRESSING through the game. Doing menial content and expecting Heroic raid quality gear isn’t how a game should be.
You don’t go and play a solo game and expect to be overpowered right from the start, you work for the stuff you want. That’s how games work, and how RPG’s have always worked. The better things in RPG’s are always hidden behind the harder content, and if you don’t do that content, you don’t get the better things.
It gives gear an actual progression, and (Even though I know you hate when people say this), it makes it so the work I’ve put in into getting good at the game and doing the harder content not be undermined by people who went and killed 10 boars in a WQ.
If you don’t like doing content, then you should expect to miss out on getting things. I don’t like PvP, so I won’t be getting any Glad mounts/titles etc, and that’s fine. Don’t expect to get things from content you don’t do, that makes no sense.
And it is worthwhile, otherwise it’s your own fault for playing it. If you’re playing something that doesn’t feel worthwhile to you, that’s on you, not the game. Again, you shouldn’t expect to be given more for content that is menial/basic that EVERY player can do.
But the point of gear isn’t for “fun”. Gear in WoW is all about progression. You get so high to jump into harder content. If you don’t jump to the next level, then that’s where the higher gear should stop.
Gear is dropped from raids to have people do it. There NEEDS to be a reward for those who are doing the harder content. Also, it sounds like you’re comparing WQ’s to Mythic raiding, which really is not the case.
And if YOU find it unrewarding, then that’s on you. Again, you can’t expect better things without doing the harder stuff.
Now, if they added other rewards to WQ’s that can only be gotten through WQ’s, that would be fine. Things that ALL players can get, but only through WQ’s. But, don’t expect Heroic quality gear when you’re only doing WQ’s, which a fresh level 60 can do.
covenant gear is terrible. Even if you can upgrade it for 3000 anima , you still would be better off doing a few bgs and just upgrade some honor gear and buy some basic conquest gear. You need to farm Anima harder than you would have to farm honor
Okay, so just your opinion then. Check.
I have a different mentality towards gaming, so I disagree with you.
Sometimes. And other times, I download a trainer and indeed go into the game overpowered. Because with some games (a recent good example was Cyberpunk) I just want to go in and experience the story and atmosphere, without the hassle of trial-and-error, dying, drawn out stretches of doing uninteresting side quests just to get a bit of XP.
There’s no undermining. That’s all in people’s minds and their fragile egos.
It doesn’t matter one bit how someone else gets gear. It’s all about; are you having fun.
And if your fun is ruined because someone else in a game got the same shiny toy, then you’re petty and honestly just a big child who should grow up. That is my opinion on the matter.
Yes and I have accepted that for several things.
But that ‘some things’ simply cannot be ‘fun’. That’s unacceptable.
Yeah same. It’s fine.
So I can’t get fun and a worthwhile, relevant experience from doing open world content? That is what you’re telling me? Well; that’s insane.
Of course it’s on the game. If there’s rewards, it’s worthwhile. That’s how RPG gameplay works, you do something and you get something in return.
No matter how much some people disagree; open world content IS endgame content too and it deserves to be worthwhile and relevant, just like the other endgame content. And no, I’m NOT saying that that means mythic or even heroic gear should drop in open world content. What I’m saying is; it deserves much, much better than what it is in SL. It deserves more in terms of development, content and progression.
Every player can do any content, so that line of thinking is nonsense.
It’s about taste. Different people enjoy different content.
For you it might not be. For me and many others it IS the point of gear.
See… And this is where this type of mentality becomes super unfair.
Easier/more accessible content NEEDS rewards just as much. Because that’s also ‘just content that people play’. There is no difference.
Yeah I am. Because the difficulty does NOT matter.
It’s all just endgame content. Played because you like it (or not played because you don’t).
And yet my sentiment is shared by others too. This is not a ‘me’ problem. This is a game problem.
The fact that YOU don’t see it as a problem, doesn’t mean there isn’t one.
Are you saying that the reward draught complaints are all ‘they’ problems and not a problem with the game?!
The gear not dropping in raids or M+ isn’t a problem for me. Does that mean there isn’t a problem? Of course not; because I am willing to look at how other players experience the game and not just be trapped in tunnelvision like some people on this forum.
It’s not about the ilvl. I have said this countless of times already. Why doesn’t anyone frickin’ acknowledge that?! Stop acting as if I’m asking for that. I’M NOT.
No, it’s not my opinion. It’s how RPG’s play in general. Name me 1 RPG where you can go and do menial tasks and get the best things, just 1. I’ll wait. Also, name 1 MMO where you can go do solo content and be on par with those who do multiplayer content, again, I’ll wait.
And this is just a lazy way of playing games. Going in expecting to be powerful from the start to “experience the story” is just stupid when you’re playing an MMO. Also, you get to experience the story with the gear you have, LFR allows that. So, again, why does world content need higher gear when you’re already getting what you want?
And again, this is where you’re wrong. You constantly say it’s about “someone’s ego”, but it’s your own ego that expects the best stuff for menial work. It has to do with the fact that those who are doing harder content DESERVE the bigger rewards, because they spend time learning everything about the game. There’s no way you can compare WQ’s to Heroic raiding, M+ or high PvP, otherwise more of a percentage of players would be doing it.
My FUN isn’t ruined, but the feeling that I EARNED something is. The fact that you’re constantly belittling others because of their “ego” when you seem to have the biggest ego going says a lot about you as a person. Your EGO feels you deserve better rewards than what you’re getting because “ma fun” (Which is just a cop-out argument. Fun is subjective, yes. But, you don’t NEED Heroic quality gear to have fun).
But. those “some things” ARE fun to people. Everyone enjoys their own things in this game, not everything is going to be fun for everyone. Why is it “Just your opinion” when someone says it’s fun/not fun for them, but when it comes to you, it’s “unacceptable” for something to not be fun for you?
So, it’s fine for that, but you also don’t do hard PvE content but expect to get those higher ilvl’s that a good portion of people who do the harder content aim for. See, this is contradictory to what you keep saying.
Never said that. They should add new things to WQ’s for casual players to be able to aim for, not gear. Cosmetic rewards, pets, mounts etc. Things that are personal. But, they shouldn’t add Normal/Heroic quality gear to it, because, though you want relevant experience, that isn’t a relevant reward.
Yes, but if you do something more difficult, you get more of a reward. That’s how it works. You don’t do the basic stuff that all players can do and get the best stuff in the game.
100% agree with you. WQ’s are end game, and it should be given a good look at to give casual players MORE in the game to do. This doesn’t need to be tied to gear, there are plenty of different things that can be added.
While I agree with you that “every player can do any content”, what I meant by that statement is not everyone is CAPABLE of doing the harder content. I know i for one, no matter how much I do PvP, I’ll NEVER be able to do the higher end PvP. I have done PvP over the years, but can never seem to get “good” at it, so I’ll always do the basic battlegrounds.
It’s the same way with people in PvE. Just because it’s accessible, doesn’t mean it’s doable.
So, because in YOUR opinion, gear is based off of fun, Blizzard should cater to you? When, In MINE and other people’s opinion, gear is based on PROGRESSING your character to harder content (But this is what you say is “our opinion”).
Yes, and as long as the rewards doesn’t have anything to do with being as high as those doing the harder content, then it’s all fine. It has nothing to do with being “unfair”, it has to do with who puts in more effort. That one person who is watching videos on 1 screen whilst semi-afking WQ’s, or that other person who has put HOURS into learning their class, rotation, dungeons, raid bosses etc.
It’s unfair to expect to get the same as what those are getting who have put effort into learning the game whilst all your doing is content that you can do whilst levelling up, so 48’s are able to do it (Scaled down of course).
Yeah, this is where you lose the argument. Difficulty DOES matter because it requires MORE work, MORE focus and a LOT MORE TIME to do Mythic raiding than it does doing WQ. Just because they are both “end game content” does not mean they SHOULD be the same. This is a ridiculous way of thinking about end game content, and just screams of your entitlement, sorry.
And MY sentiment is also shared by others, that WQ’s ARE NOT ON PAR WITH RAIDING, and therefore should not get given raid quality rewards. My sentiment of WQer’s getting Heroic rewards devaluing my effort is also one of many players too, and yet you just say “That’s just ego talking”. So, stop being contradictive.
No, there are defo reward draughts, but not for casual players. There’s a certain point where gear progression stops for casual players, and that’s HOW it should be. Casuals shouldn’t become seriously powerful whilst playing casually, but they should be able to get other rewards, and they do. There’s cosmetics, mounts, pet’s and toys to work for for Anima off of your covenant shop. THESE are rewards. Just because YOU don’t like them doesn’t mean they are not rewards.
This is a complete lie and I know it. I’ve seen you belittle others for how they play the game. I’ve also seen you tell people it’s “because of their ego” that they feel this way. You want the game to cater to YOU, and have done since at LEAST the beginning of BFA.
So then what’s wrong with the rewards now? Have you gotten EVERY piece of cosmetics from ALL 4 covenants (4 alts is easy to do this on). How about all the pets? Mounts? Toys? THESE are all the rewards you can get, there’s about 70+ rewards JUST in the covenants alone for casuals to aim for.
So, there isn’t a problem with rewards for casuals, there’s a problem for rewards YOU want, and that’s not on the game, that’s on you. YOU want to become stronger CONSTANTLY, that’s the only “reward” you want. But, you also don’t want to do the stronger content.
This doesn’t then mean there’s a problem, since there’s 1000’s of things that casuals can work towards, including YEARS of old content. The only problem is casuals wanting to feel AS STRONG as those who are pushing the harder content, without actually putting in the effort to DO that harder content.
Yes it is.
For the frickin’ Nth time:
THAT IS NOT WHAT I’M ASKING FOR.
So stop pretending that I am. Thank you.
WoW, for many years. 
Thank you for your opinion.
Thank you for your opinion.
Sigh.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I’M ASKING FOR.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I’M ASKING FOR.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I’M ASKING FOR.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I’M ASKING FOR.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I’M ASKING FOR.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I’M ASKING FOR.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I’M ASKING FOR.
Get it through that thick skull. Please?!
No I’m not. You just have a different opinion. That’s fine.
But I’m not wrong.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I’M ASKING FOR.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I’M ASKING FOR.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I’M ASKING FOR.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I’M ASKING FOR.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I’M ASKING FOR.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I’M ASKING FOR.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I’M ASKING FOR.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I’M ASKING FOR.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I’M ASKING FOR.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I’M ASKING FOR.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I’M ASKING FOR.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I’M ASKING FOR.
Pathetic.
Yes, that is MY opinion.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I’M ASKING FOR.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I’M ASKING FOR.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I’M ASKING FOR.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I’M ASKING FOR.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I’M ASKING FOR.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I’M ASKING FOR.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I’M ASKING FOR.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I’M ASKING FOR.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I’M ASKING FOR.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I’M ASKING FOR.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I’M ASKING FOR.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I’M ASKING FOR.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I’M ASKING FOR.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I’M ASKING FOR.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I’M ASKING FOR.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I’M ASKING FOR.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I’M ASKING FOR.
Are you getting it yet?
Oh but it is. I of course will still disagree, because I want to be able to have fun in a game I’m paying for. That’s completely and utterly logical.
And when you come in and try and keep Blizzard from changing a few things so that I CAN have fun, I’m going to hate you for it. Of course I am. There is no reason for you to do that.
You can have your fun in this game, so let others have their fun too.
Live and let live.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I’M ASKING FOR.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I’M ASKING FOR.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I’M ASKING FOR.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I’M ASKING FOR.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I’M ASKING FOR.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I’M ASKING FOR.
Why not gear? Your blinders are on again.
Thankfully Blizzard’s aren’t on fully. In SL they added a set with specific bonuses for open world content. That’s great. It’s a good start. But it’s not enough yet.
Gear does not automatically mean bigger numbers.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I’M ASKING FOR.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I’M ASKING FOR.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I’M ASKING FOR.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I’M ASKING FOR.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I’M ASKING FOR.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I’M ASKING FOR.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I’M ASKING FOR.
I’m getting tired of repeating this. Do you understand it yet?
Gear too. Just different. Maybe gear with horizontal progression instead of the usual vertical.
Well, yes. Not completely. But in part yeah. We’re part of the playerbase too.
And here’s another problem. Effort is subjective.
There is no fair, neutral measurement for what effort constitutes.
What about that other person who actually pays attention to what’s happening on their screen during WQs and who grinds reps for hours and hours. Who does every single WQ every day.
That IS effort.
Here we go again:
THAT IS NOT WHAT I’M ASKING FOR.
Agree to disagree.
To me it’s the same; just content. And it deserves the same treatment.
TREATMENT. Not ilvl. TREATMENT.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I’M ASKING FOR.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I’M ASKING FOR.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I’M ASKING FOR.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I’M ASKING FOR.
It is. To worry about what others get IS an ego thing.
It SHOULDN’T matter to you. It’s jealousy. It’s petty.
But…
THAT IS NOT WHAT I’M ASKING FOR.
Wow. Get lost. Really.
Blind and narrowminded. Is all I have to say.
Wow.
I’m done. Not even reading the rest of your post.
Get. Lost.
Just report him, he is incapable to have any civil discussion with everyone.
A forum vacation will (i think not) teach him how to behave with another person.
I’m for it. But then the quests should be scalling too, so better geared players have the same level of annoyance, as I have.
If it was just my opinion, why do ALL RPG’s and ALL MMO’s follow the same things? Again, not my opinion. You can go and check and SEE it’s a fact it’s how MMO’s and RPG’s work.
No, that was only in BFA and Legion, because they both became loot pinata’s. Before then it wasn’t a thing. Not to mention, a LOT of people had a problem with the gear progression in Legion and BFA, the only one’s who didn’t were casuals who got the welfares.
And reported for name-calling.
So, again, mine is an opinion whilst yours is fact? Again, that’s just your ego talking. I’m not wrong that giving Heroic quality stuff to WQer’s is undermining those who are doing the harder content. This is something you have no clue about because you don’t do the content.
And you demanding that menial content should give you amazing rewards is pathetic. Just MY opinion.
There is gear, there’s cosmetics. If numbers don’t matter to you, then the cosmetics you get from ALL covernants should be good enough for you, right? Since, you know, it’s gear?
Effort isn’t subjective. Playing a game for 10+ hours a day doesn’t amount to effort, doing WQ’s requires very little effort. Just because you’re doing WQ’s for hours does not make those WQ’s require more effort, they are still the same effort no matter how long you do them for.
The effort needed for WQ’s is no where near the effort for Heroic raiding, whether you like it or not. This isn’t subjective. Again, time does not equal effort.
And they get rewarded for their efforts. Transmog, mounts, toys, pet’s, the rep itself, plans for professions etc. THESE are the rewards you get when you put in THAT effort.
What treatment do you want? There’s already gear, it’s just cosmetic. So, what gear do you actually want? Something that progresses you without the ilvl upgrade? If so, you’re asking for the impossible, or it’ll be something you don’t like.
It has nothing to do with ego or jealousy. It’s jealousy and ego to expect amazing rewards from menial tasks in a game.
So all 4 covenants giving 70+ cosmetics, 10+ mounts, a few pets, some toys, plus everything from reputations, plus all the mounts from rares you can get, plus EVERYTHING else that casuals can get is still a draught?
Telling me to get lost is just being toxic, so enjoy the report for this too.
They’ve been doing things like this since at least the start of BFA and never gotten a vacation. They constantly belittle and hide insults within their posts and then spam-report people who disagree with them. Don’t worry, I know the Tahra troll on the forums ^_^.
They are simply ignorant to an amazing level.
They don’t know the basics of game design like player type
They are ignorant and keep yelling in the hopes that their ignorant request will be listened, becouse they can’t do any better with their poor education.
They simple refuse to educate themself and pretend the world to adjust to them when they are the ones that should grab a book firsthand.
I have been a hardcore player -
And as it is I prefer when its catered to the casual base cause then everyone can get rewarded in the end.
I just get rewarded faster than a casual if I do it via high raiding.
That would, imo, be fine. Others will disagree.
See the “Bigger boat than my neighbour”-mindset.
Agreed, everyone should be rewarded. But, as I’ve stated, casuals have a LOT of things as rewards from just the covenants alone. Never mind all the old content, plus the reputations, plus the rares that can drop mounts/toys/pets, plus the chests that can drop things as well. The game IS catered to casuals more than hardcore players, casuals have a LOT more rewards for their content than hardcore does, so why should casuals ALSO get the rewards from hardcore stuff?
If it takes them 3 weeks to get full 220 gear, and it takes you 1;
Would it matter so much?
I get both sides. I am just old and “done”. Not sure how to explain it.
Casino-style loot is just depressing and I rather have things targetable and farmable.
Perhaps just do it like…
You do normal - get normal badge gear until you fill out your entire armor with it.
You then can get a badge for 1 piece of heroic gear.
You do heroic - you get heroic badges until full gear then 1 mythic badge.
Mythic - you get mythic badges, then 1 upgrade mega Rainbow token of doom.
Idk.
I just want more targettable work efforts in the end.
The theory you linked does not present an argument here. It’s merely a taxonomy, but what is being argued here that certain elements of the game should remain gated by effort invested and skill developed in order to beat certain level of complex content.
This does not mean a player who runs around in open world shouldn’t be able to get something out of it, however any kind of gear progression doesn’t make sense if it allows players to bypass actual challenging content (and I support Blizzard for removing it, as I am an original vanilla player and that’s how it worked back then as well).
There is a huge amount of mounts, pets, cosmetics, transmogs etc. casual players can work towards. Blizzard caters to them a lot imo. There is a huge amount of legacy content as well. But when it comes to current gear/upgrades, they should in my opinion stay reserved for players who invest effort to beat harder content (either PVP or PVE).
Again, these are all opinions, but WoW is a multiplayer game in the end and most content in the game is created having that in mind, if you go purposely avoiding challenges in what is the core aspect of the game progression, there is no real reason to receive rewards that are on par with this.
There has to be some value in gearing, if you trivialize everything the game stops making sense if you get what I mean.
I am not really sure what the self called “casuals” even want at this point?
They claim they want to do stuff which is “fun” for them. Aight. Go transmog farm, collections, WQs…whatever. Nobody is stopping you.
Yet then they claim its no longer fun to do cause there is no reward from them?
Well I am sorry but are you expecting to get 226 gear while you are pet battling?..and do you even need 226 gear to pet battle anyway? 
Are you delusional? It’s more time-consuming yes. Is it more effort? Hell no.
Honestly, not really. If it took them longer, I’d be fine with that. So, I do agree that having more upgrades to the upgradable gear would be good. Maybe put the upgrades behind a “Do % many WQ’s to unlock” or something like that.
It’s not really the ilvl thing that’s the problem. If it was, then I’d also have a problem with the fact Legion and WoD flying is now free would be a problem, and I love that they’ve done that.
So that makes it not count? Come on now.
It was like that for almost 5 years. So yes. I spoke the truth.
‘okay’
What name did I call you exactly?
That’s not what I said, is it.
You keep doing this and it’s frickin’ irritating. DON’T CLAIM I SAID STUFF THAT I DID NOT SAY.
If that’s how you feel, no you’re not wrong.
But there’s also people who think that feeling that way is petty and silly. They’re not wrong either.
Has nothing to do with content and everything to do with simple psychology.
You just won’t stop, will you?
Even after telling you MULTIPLE TIMES that:
THAT IS NOT WHAT I’M ASKING FOR.
Yes it is. IT LITERALLY IS.
I can’t talk to you anymore. You just can’t be reasoned with if you don’t even accept facts.
I’m just fed up at this point.
Stop claiming I say or ask for things that I’m not.
End of story.
Bye.