Its entertained because you farm score and can say i´m better then you.
At the end a M+ player will never be max ilvl in one Season
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That’s what I like. It’s better this way imo.
Score is there to say to myself I am better than I was last week.
If YOU use it to compare yourself to others its your problem.
But yes. Rio IS the thing you farm in M+. Not gear.
You mean without any affixes where every week is the same?
As it should be. Before you only had 1 week a month at best that qualified as “push weeks”. The rest of the weeks were there to wait for the next “push week”.
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So we scale the PvE gear in M+ like the gear in PvP.
Would you still play?
Why not?
We run keys higher than the reward cap, and more than 8 weekly which is enough for the vault. People have fun playing M+.
bring back legion style m+ it was peak
YES. Absolutely.
I have kept doing keys WAY beyond the level it gives rewards. And in DF for a LONG time I was max ilvl (as far as I could get atleast). It would not change anything at all for me.
If you aspire to be a seer, I have some disappointing news to you…
If you say it…
It is tho. With the exception of Ara-Kara/Dawnbreaker and perhaps Mists, every other dungeon is single-handedly about the timer now.
Dare to wipe a single boss literally anywhere and you are done. (unless you overgear it ofc)
The timer should be important, but it should not be worst enemy throughout the dungeon (at least until m10).
Right now the keystone starts in a Necrotic wake and it already feels like you had wiped at least 2 times somewhere or a tyrannical boss. This also riddles the run with constant stress (-> more toxicity, more leavers), especially with the +7 affix’s existence.
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You will have to rerun them.
I didn’t play in DF so I am not sure what exactly “before” means. Last time I actually played PvE you had tank checks, dps checks, healing checks. Dungeons were played different and were actually fun.
Now what? We have more damage taken and less damage done? It’s not really a challenge while it completely removes the fun.
What do you beat playing a +12 and +13? The gear check?
And if you take a look from a pug perspective, it’s even worse. To make up for the natural lack of dps you have to adjust pulls, which means the tank has no real environment to actually test it, so someone’s key will be a test run eventually 
At this point, why should anyone actually bother to push higher? Where is the hook? It’s monotonous without any actual reward in the end.
Push weeks is a concept that existed since Legion.
It means the week where the combination of affixes are easy. Such that you can reach higher key levels that you could otherwise. The rest of the weeks (comparitevely speaking) you could NEVER time dungeons higher than you can in “push weeks”.
It applies in lower keys as well. Depending on what your “max level” is.
The challange. The rio. Many reasons.
I mean, you want purpose in a game ? By defenition a game is a massive waste of time. Why does everything have to be productive, cant it just be entertaining ?
And you were always allowed to do that. Nobody is stopping you. Just like you are whinging about the top rewards of the Mythic Keystone Dungeons system.
You can keep whining about that too.
That was a perfect example. And you agreed with me. If you cannot complete an M10 in your current gear, then you should do a lower key. Which will provide you with gear rewards to progress higher and eventually, being able to complete an M10 on time.
So all in all, gear is progression for M+.
Ye, I get that but it was like 1 key difficulty difference if at all.
Where is the challenge tho? You literally play EXACTLY the same mechanics. You simply do less damage and receive more. That’s it. At some point everything that happens is that you reach your limit, kinda. Then you have to swap classes or wait for more gear or nerfs. What for tho? To do the exactly same dungeon with the exactly same mechanics? When your peak was +12, you “wait it out” (waiting for nerfs or more gear) and do the +13 which then will be exactly the same. So what’s the point? Where is the challenge?
(keep in mind the number is just an example, replace it with 14 or 15 if you wish)
What exactly is the rio doing and what exactly are those “many” reasons? I simply don’t see any.
No, I want fun and variation. Imo we already had it. Why removing it?
Because it’s neither right now. It’s not entertaining, there is no variation, it’s stale and on top of that you are not getting any rewards for putting in the effort. Don’t forget, not everyone is playing a meta class and not playing a meta class means you have even less of a chance getting into a dungeon, which means you naturally have to put in more effort. But what for? To do the exact same dungeon?
I already reached the point where I cba doing +11 or higher. Basically only playing when my friends ask me to. And the higher you go the more it’s impossible to pug it. I can’t even play my main role at some point and have to tank because people are meta slaves. With different affixes, different specs could be stronger and more viable. Pugging a +12 right now is everything else than fun or entertaining.
Exactly like that. The old affixes were nothing but a hindrance. The dungeon should be the challenge not the rubbish they add that wasn’t fun. +12 is hard enough. Less than 0.60% of the player base has done them. And only 4.50% have done +11s. A lot of people are getting found out this season and that’s why the forums are blowing up. I think with the new +7 change it’s great. You can have 1 wipe before it effects the timer.
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Right. I wonder what RIO is all about.
And I ask you this: What is more important to get admited into M+ groups ? Rio or ilvl ?
The answer is RIO. Because in practical terms nobody is walking arround with champion gear doing 10s. You do keys trying to improve your rio, and gear rains from the sky as a result.
So ? You spent 3 weeks doing keys you have already done. No progress.
You swap to gear with more vers. You time your CDs better. You kick some things you used to previously ignore. If mobs have more HP healer DPS becomes relevant so your talent choices and rotation change (more offensive, same for tanks). Damage also becomes relevant, so DPS talent choices and rotation change (more defensive)…
A long list of stuff… And you dont have to wait for nerfs either. Not in normal seasons with a smooth progression. Unlike this one (but that is another conversation).
You dont. Others do.
Because what you find “fun” is not the same for everyone. Being punished with Fortified + Bolsterin is something people did not find “fun”. Myself included.
I mean… if you dont like M+ just say it ! M+ is by defenition doing the same dungeon over and over again. The affixes were not “variation”. They were just a nuisance on top.
I find it actually MUCH easier than 11 because everything is much more scripted and you can focus on the mechanics.
Because nobody is getting in groups while not everyone can schedule their life around a game and that times 5.
Then you add the fact that most people simply want to copy the top players and their compositions and not play what’s actually viable but the only composition they falsely believe are viable.
And then don’t forget how other people are not even getting the chance to play in the first place, even if on the right class but not having the “correct” rio.
But do you also consider that the rewards stop at +10? So people are obviously not willing to put more effort into +11s since there is literally no reason to? Did you compare +10 run vs +11s? Since +11 is not much harder, they should be around the same, right? Unless, people do need a reason to play and therefore the difference in those 2 difficulties?
If I had to guess, people run +10s at least 5 times more often and it would make absolutely sense. The difficulty is 100% not the reason people run less +11s
So you would invite a 570 ilvl player with 2600 rio over a 620 ilvl, 2200 rio scored player? Huh, very interesting.
You understand, that due to this being a team effort, a player can be carried (paid or otherwise) to very high scores without any gear?
RIO is also progression. Why can’t you progress in two measurable aspects while doing one type of content?