Just get your balancing right and remove the timer…
It’s not tho. If you like the challenge, you play through, learn and improve. If you leave the moment you BELIEVE (while it’s not even true) it’s not timeable, it’s not a challenge. It’s literally sweating and tryharding. And I’ve seen more than enough people who are basically carried by the group where there rio means absolutely nothing. In fact, I just had a shaman with me. Guy was playing with wellspring and cloudburst. Now in my book that’s a raid spec and this guy obviously lacked A LOT of healing.
He was only missing GB11 for his 2,7k yet in my book this guy is basically boosted. A tank never comes close to my healing in high keys. Never. This guy tho struggled with healing and of course left. You think he likes the challenge? lmao… his is a rio sweater and a boosted one too.
https://imgur.com/a/MGKHsag
With a healer who knew what he is doing, it was not a problem at all anymore.
https://imgur.com/a/3qy30lU
Pug life.
Wdym why? Because people are sweaty tryhards. You have to play meta or you are out 99% of the time. But on top of that you have many meta slaves who can’t even carry their own weight. It’s a struggle.
A good healer? Or a healer in a good group? Huge difference.
If you have a group making mistakes all the time or healer simply not pumping enough at the right times, it’s a wipe.
The shaman from the GB11 run is the best example. Guy can barely hit 1 mio hps and struggled all the way. The run was smooth if he simply could pump a bit more over all. But he couldn’t. I argue his low hps is NOT making him a good healer.
Well, obviously it can’t be a ton because there are already barely any playing. Since we have the data.
Still doesn’t explain the difference between +10s and +11s. There is barely any difficulty increase.
Well, ok… I could understand that. But maybe people would keep pushing, if it was actually fun? 
And that’s the thing. It’s simply NOT getting better. That’s my point.
Uhm… you even quoted me, here:
It literally says “I didn’t even bother”.
Remove it, the Challengers Peril is burning people out. The game should be fun and it issn’t because of this affix. It causes keys to deplete faster then it took to form them. The designers of this affix should stop being to proud to admit this is harming the game. Challengers Peril is the root of almost all evil things done in wow right now.
People have jobs, families and other stuff to do aswell. To gain your 3 myth vault slots we need to do 8x +10. This is allready a huge time investment. Not to mention the time it takes to get the groupe and depleted runs.
After all the hours invested there is not much time left for other activities in the game. I don’t want to work hard for the best gear. I work hard at my job.
Solution is simple.
- Remove Challengers Pearl.
- Myth vault loot from +8
- Reduce the amount of runs needed for the vault reward.
But you are mixing two different concepts here.
If you like the challange and improve, tell me then. What does “improve” mean ? It means you do harder and harder stuff. And there is a number to measure that: RIO.
And then a totally different subject are people that dont play M+ right. People that leive early, DDs that dont kick, tanks that dont use CDs, healers that dont heal…
That is just people that are in the process of “learning”. Not everyone is a boosted dude.
No. Because of the difficulty spikes.
Exactly. That is why parses are meaningless. Pareses are supposed to measure YOUR performance. But your HPS depends 100% on the group you are in.
If you are healing 1M overall in GB11 the party is seriously doing something wrong. In my runs I do 500k overall and it goes super smooth.
Correct. You got the data.
There is a 95% drop between 11s and 12s. Those 95%. Its them. And im not counting either the ones strugling in a 10. Some of those also form part of that 95%.
OK. Let me put it this way:
You just ran the hardest marathon of your life. You are laying on the ground with every bone in your body hurting and grasping for air. And I offer you to go for short run to the bus station. What would you say ?
Maybe I missread. Sorry.
The point still stands. You definetly needed to heal in S3. And you missed out on one the best seasons I have seen in a long time.
Just revert all changes done to m+ to DF
cause it was way way better for a casual PUG player to play the game.
Cause if these changes were meant to end the pUGING
you did a well done job
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Bolstering was a literal non-affix
Right.
This is what happened : I went to EB26. A fortified week. Plus bolstering.
You had packs of 1 dude with 5 flowers that had 30% the health of the dude. That 1 dude chunked 80% of your health in 1 cast. And hit the tank for 30% of his HP per white hit. You kill 1 flower. Just ONE (and it happens just with passive cleave you cant avoid). And the tank instantly dies.
You needed to time your CCs so perfectly, and do so much DPS that you delete the pack before it has a chance to land ONE hit. Because ONE hit is all it takes to 1-shot somenone. Tank included.
That is hardly a “non affix for normal IQ people”. That is an affix of : you have to do things perfectly or you die.
And a EB26 back then was not a big deal. The pros were doing it in +31. So you needed “pro” gameplay to do keys 5 levels lower. Just because of that 1 affix.
People did 30s with bolstering idk what ur talking abt lol
Bolstering was not an issue for people that were capable of actually timing CDs, targeting and not brainlessly DPSing
It really wasn’t as bad as you’re pretending.
Did you read what I wrote ?
Here, I will quote it again :
I dont care what the pros are doing. That week you needed to play 5 key levels better than your max to get the same results.
Basically what I am saying is: The fact that it was not a problem for 0.2% of the playerbase dosent mean that it was not a massive problem for the other 99.8%.
Yes, but you’re wrong.
You’re acting like 99.8% of the playerbase isn’t unable to count to 5 and tie their shoelaces properly, that doesn’t make the affix difficult, it makes the players stupid.
Players are not stupid.
There are key levels for a reason. That reason is because there are different skill levels. And that is NORMAL.
And what you are doing is expecting people that play at their appropriate key level to play as well as the pros. For one week. Because of one affix.
Its an unreasonable expectation to have. So I digress. I am correct and that affix sucks.
me when i lie.
My bad for expecting people to be capable of not pressing their AoE buttons for like 15 seconds per pack?
It really isn’t, 99% of the WoW playerbase is just incredibly bad at the game.
Then 99% of players would be doing 2+. But that is not the case. There is a gausian curve. A skill curve.
Bolstering was an affix that if you pressed your AoE button by 15.5s appart (0.5s delay) you wiped.
Its not about pressing the button. Its doing it perfectly. That was the issue.
The pros were already doing it perfectly optimized. That is why its a non issue for them. The rest of the players had some form of minute delay, or made 1 mistake once. Which 99% of cases meant your tank got hit by 1 more white than the pros. Which isent a big deal.
Except in bolstering weeks. On those weeks you wiped.
Measuring it in WoW is obviously hard. High rio doesn’t mean you understand what to do. I’ve seen it too many times and I have the perspective as tank and healer on it, meanwhile I obviously also understand the pov of a dps.
If you are almost 2,7k and barely understand what to do, this is what I call boosted. And I’ve seen many people with “high” rio who didn’t know what to do.
Actually you said something interesting earlier: If you had to claw your way to 10s you are exhausted. You dont want to go through that all over again.
This is what you can say for +12… if someone did +12 already in time, why should he go again through this struggle, especially when my argument is would be true, that it’s boring while not providing you any benefits?
But it also doesn’t disregard my points. Because it’s so hard, people sweat even more about it and because people sweat so much about rio, they leave the runs even quicker, since there is nothing else to gain. Not so much about entertaining 
And in pugs you 99% of the time have to pump much more hps than you would in a pre-made. So who is a good healer at this point? The one who can keep people alive and time the run even tho there are unexpected fails or the guy who can only heal a pre-made group that plays well? That’s the different between getting experience in pugs and getting boosted. Many healers (especially when playing meta spec) are simply carried by decent people without even being able to play their own class properly. Just need to spam long enough and leave before the key depletes This is why I try to avoid Rshaman when pugging because I always expect the group to make more fails than they should and I know most shamans won’t be able to keep up with the healing.
You probably are not pugging then You seen that I am even as a tank far above that. I am used to have “though” runs with pugs, which is probably why I find +12 not much harder. Just did CoT +9 to help a friend of a friend, timed it 2 chest and 914k hps over all. For me, that’s kinda normal. In a +12 I am around 1,2 - 1,4 so basically pressing same buttons just less overhealing.
This I would completely understand for +12s.
Now add, that you are getting 100k for this. That’s the magic of rewards. Obviously the numbers drop because the majority agrees that it’s not worth the effort while the “fun” part is not cutting it.
Ye unfortunate… 
maybe we get something like that in TWW as well. After this season being so bad I hope they won’t fail S2 just the same way.
Because M+ is a team thing. That tank probably succeded with other people and not with you.
You cannot claim exceptions make the rule. Usually people have the appropriate rio for their skill.
Whatver you say. If you dont want to listen then dont.
There are pug groups and there are pug grups. There are also “premades” pushing 8+.
What’s your point here?
All I am saying is that parses (that measure mainly HPS) is not a measure of skill in any way. Especially because as a healer most of the time you can prevent damage by being efficient with CDs.
Let me give you an example of what I do in pugs:
BIG AoE happens. People are at 50%. I know that for 30s there will not be another event. I have 2 options:
- (A) I can spam chain heals and pump HPS to get people back to 100%. OR…
- (B) I have a WA that tells me who is being targeted by what. So I ONLY spot heal those that are being targeted by some bolt or something. Or kick that bolt myself. Everyone else will pasively heal themselves.
Option (A) gets you 99% parses. But is not a good way to heal. Option (B) gets you in the 40% parses. But its the smart way to heal.
This happens even in PuGs.
Sure I am. A LOT.
Why ? People are having just as bad time in 12s as they are in 9s. Why discriminate ?
I advocate to go back to S3 scaling of dungeons, with S3 mob spell quew, and kiss/curse affixes. For ALL keylevels. DONE.
I think you mean the healer, who was lower in hps than me on tank. Yes, obviously he succeeded with other people, because they carried him. Is not hard healing smooth runs, the skill kicks in when it’s not smooth. That’s what makes healer fun to play for me.
Is not an exception tho. Usually people have the rio but not the skill. I’ve just seen it too many times and I do pug a lot.
And that’s an exception. A pug group doing well is not the rule.
And yes, there are pre-mades who play worse than pugs. And now? It was obvious what I meant, no?
If the pull goes wrong and more hps is required, this is where the skill shows. Being able to click buttons in time like a bot is not what skill means to me. You have to adapt and do the best you can in an unexpected situation. If the situation requires 2 mil hps, you pump it. It’s that simple. Wa the pull bad and did the people play it wrong? Sure. Doesn’t matter. Can you, with your own class and skill rescue the situation? That’s the point.
If I would simply slack around 600k hps and tell every group that this healing is fine to complete the key while we are dying, I would have not cleared anything lmao…
Except the worst case scenarios are not that basic, while not every healer has a range interrupt.
There was context to this. Rewards. People are willing to suffer more as long as they get rewarded. Which is why you see less people in +11 than +10 even tho the difficulty barely changes.
Hey guys we noticed this affix is crap but we’re only half ready to admit it so we’ll roll a teeny bit of it back.
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You should not lose any extra time for dying in the first place. Dying alone is punishment enough.
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yep thats what it means
I don’t believe it will solve the problem of this season.
Waiting for updates about season 2 to decide if it is time move to another hobby.