Mythic+ honestly drops too much gear

Why shouldn’t they be compared? The vast majority of players are not doing mythic raiding and never will.

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Except M+ is limited to normal raid gear the first 1-2 weeks.

I kill 3-4 raid bosses in 30min, so seems like they align :slight_smile:
And the 60% chance is only if you time it.

Yes, because is too hard for vast majority of the players.

While on the other hand, anyone that can do heroic, can also do the +15s in time… And no matter how much heroic or +15 keys one will do… they will still have worse gear than a mythic raider.

Heroic raid or +15 keys… its 460 and 465 loot… big deal… this is all content for us, who are too bad to raid mythic… some scraps with a random 475 mixed in, so we can also have semi decent gear… while those who do mythic raid are still properly rewarded with the BEST gear.

M+ does give A LOT of gear… but the maximum ilvl is 465 and as such this gear poses no treat to proper raid gear.

I’d even support if +20 would give 470 and +25 would give 475 for example. Because if we take current season as sample for difficulty, if you can do 20s you deserve 470… and if u can do 25s you deserve 475 same as mythic for sure.

And even like this, in this tier, the mythic raider would come up on top, as 485 loot and 490 azerites and 475 vitas would still only drop in raid.

I agree a bit but it’s a problem for me only because homogenized gear. M+ is fun and I’d like it as side activity with friends during the weekend but it’s the best way to gear. In fact you can create full leather party and quickly gear someone up boosting him. I don’t mind it because M+ loot is also rng but if I get 1 useful PvP piece a week, cap one is barely useful and weekly chest that is only good if I’m 2100 cr+ and M+ that I can spam with guild and get more ilvl than playing PvP for 2 months it’s a bit annoying. If they separate gear like in MoP/WoD I have no problem and stop complaining because it’s my side activity while there are players who enjoy it more and play it way more. For now I think it’s a bit not fair.

I did a +11 yesterday. It was way easier than getting 20 people and doing the heroic raid. Where did this idea come from that +11 is harder than heroic?

2 weeks per item if you are really pushing it, usually 3 if I recall correctly. So 6-9 weeks to get 3 random mythic pieces. Not bad, not quick either. Some can funnel azerite gear to get more to either get them quicker or to pick non-random one.

So ? It was designed to be repeatable content that is an alternative to raiding. Raid logging was bad for the game (at least from their perspective) so they added a perpetual gearing and challenge system. If you want you can run 1000 M+ a week. You can however run a raid once per week. Could the raid gear be more distinct? Sure, but that doesn’t mean M+ drops to much gear. You are raiding for gear, you are doing M+ for gear.

And if you limit it to much it will cause a burnout effect that causes people to stop running given instance/raid tier as soon as they get the item after some stupid amount of runs. Or they sub for a raid tier for a month and then wait for next one not really interested in raiding HC for 2 months and still not having the gear, that in a month or less will be obsolete due to next tier.

Right now it’s not an alternative, it’s a replacement because it throws 3-4x more loot at you for the same amount of time.

+15 key or heroic raid… or your coveted +11… all are piss easy… and as such reward some average gear… to not call it outright trash.

So your point being that m+ drops too much gear… it drops a lot of trash. Big deal, you only need 15 items to equip, and having 300 pieces of trash gear does not help.

Its not about quantity.

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So what’s the problem? If you have a good guild you can raid and do M+. If you don’t have a good guild you still can be as competitive by PUGing M+ to your likes content.

My guild lost a lot of good players after Legion and first tier of BfA and after that raiding wasn’t really fun (and I don’t really have to swap guild and care about raid progression). After few weeks of M+ HC raid can’t give any upgrade, but at least there is a chance to clear it while overgearing and having lots of freshman in the guild run (otherwise impossible). Or if it was our first tier state of the guild - try some mythic bosses.

They could make raid and M+ gear more distinct. Nyalotha last two bosses drop the highest ilvl gear that isn’t available in other type of content already (and even that caused some problems in terms of other game mode balance).

“+11 should give 3-4x more loot than heroic raid because they’re both easy anyway, so it doesn’t matter!”

Great argument.

Here is how to balance it

Remove item from weekly chest, keep residuum

M+ drops 2 pieces at end if timed, 1 if untimed

No more welfare epics.

3 HC raid boss (30 mins): 20% per boss is 60%, throw in a random bonus roll and you have 80% to walk away with loot.

1 +11 M+ (30 minutes): 60% to walk away with loot.

How is that 3-4x more loot? Lay out the math please.

By my math is even less loot…

Please upload a video of you doing Xanesh, Vexiona, and Hivemind + all the trash in between in 30 min in PUG.

No need for video.

Nyalotha HC is clearable in 2 hours, its a fact… at least it is in PUGs I can join. I imagine you can’t join good groups on a 110 mage… so you wouldn’t know.

Yeah raiding gives so much gear, that’s why everyone chooses heroic raid over m+ for gearing their alts. You just have BS arguments and you know it. 3 heroic raid bosses in pug takes way more time and effort than a single 30-minute +11.

While i agree raiding is way harder (still progressing myself heroic), why do we really care about bad 460 loot from M+? It is usually really crap. Raid is dropping way better stuff.

First you need score, then you need to be picked among 100 of others, then you need to complete it and then and probably then you got a loot from a pool of 4 bosses which might be the one you weren’t looking for.
Oh yeah you can run it 100 times if you find the same instance with a chance to get good players in it.

Raiding should ALWAYS give better rewards at the same ilvl as 5-man dungeons, because of new mechanics each patch, weekly lockout, and that it takes 20 people. That means even normal should give better rewards than m+. Instead it’s backwards, they waste all this time designing the raids only to make it obsolete in the first week by 2-year old dungeons. There should be tier set bonuses again.

It is not obsolete, i am dying to get the nzoth trinket, for example (the ra-dens haste would be nice too).
M+ has not a lockout, but has a keysystem. So you can not spam the dungeon.

You are not looking at the difficulty that just never stops in M+, and that it is just an alternative way to gear.

So just RNG items at the end of instance run instead of a choice? PvP also uses weekly box.

There is % for a bonus item at higher key levels

Oh poor you. Other will still get all the gear they want much quicker than you. People don’t have problems running M+ and having more gear drops than needed. Nothing will change, HC will be obsolete in terms of upgrade few weeks after release.

And what can happen is people targeting dungeons more. If you have a BiS in dungeon A but it doesn’t drop BiS or anything good for tanks good luck getting a group over and over again. People will be more busy running their BiS dungeons than running any dungeon or managing their RiO score.

Then you would start class stacking. Need that leather piece? 5-man of leather wearers. Others are excluded.

Depends entirely on the people you play with. I’ve been in low key dungeons that are harder than even the first boss in LFR. Like a +8(I think) UR I did earlier. The DPS and healer kept dying to sanguine and the larvas blowy thing, we had 39 deaths by the 3rd boss because they couldn’t move.