People will always have a requirement to get into their group, and there’s nothing wrong with that.
The Guild scene isn’t accounted for in that statement and actual raiding Guilds are few and far between compared to how many there used to be.
I just don’t get why they don’t go back to MoP prior to flex.
LFR was fun.
Normal was ran frequently
Heroic 10 & 25man had an active guild scene. 20 man Mythic was a mistake.
Mythc+ doesn’t have to ruin it.
Tier sets make the raids worth doing. Trinkets are often sought after from raids too and they’re easier to target.
Then there could be a Legendary currency that you get from raiding.
The frustrating part about Blizzard is they had it fine, they changed it for the sake of change, and then they refuse to undo what they did, they go further down the rabbit hole of trying to make what didnt work, work, without being what they used to have.
You and Elias havent done any content between you . You have no idea how hard mythic+ is.
Herioc was cleared on same day it opened . People struggled to do 9s on time same day so go figure .
You and Elias are nothing more than trolls and you dont like facts .
Stop making the same thread every week and follow forum rules and use one of your other topics .
Until you and Elias can do the content you whine about dont comment on it as its embarrasing how little you know.
I don’t see what this thread is about, i mean i completed heroic raid and still didn’t feel challenged… the M+ dungeons are more challenging and far more time consuming than killing one heroic boss.
So, your argument that its killed heroic raiding failed (because its certainly not true, its still faster to get 460 azerite armor and only raid azerite gear gives you heart of darkness trait and you won’t get trinkets in m+ like the ones in the raid and of course the guaranteed corruption pieces + the 470 ilvl gear from the last 2 boss. That’s why heroic raids are still being cleared by tons of people) and now you try to make it look like that you for some reason deeply care about how people spend their time in front of their PC which they would spend there even if m+ or WoW wasn’t a thing… That’s laughable at best.
Why do people always come up with this stupid ‘a +xy key not in time gives the same reward as heroic raids’?
Why is the not in time so important? It’s not like you would get no loot if you kill a raid boss after wiping 3times.
No matter how long you need for a M+ dungeon or raid boss, as long as you manage to beat it you have a chance for loot.
Also with Azerite armour, higher chance for corrupted items, and stronger trinkets raiding is still attractive enough.
You can get mythic ilvl Azerite pieces through M+, but unless you collect titan residuum for weeks to buy a specific one, you can also get a good amount of useless Azerite armour with wrongs traits being worse than ilvl 450 one.
And most people who don’t raid atleast HC would for normal try to get ilvl 460 Azerite pieces first for a better gearscore.
The only problem with current M+ dungeons is that some affix combinations are so imbalanced that sometimes you struggle even on lower keys and sometimes you can rush through higher ones without a problem.
When there is a such mechanic then you wonder why the raid wiped instantly and nobody likes it if it happens in a boss fight. That’s why for the most part raid mechanics tend to be less 0/1 - like staggering dispels or organizing dispels before dots start ticking etc. The thing is there is one tank and one healer in M+ and in many cases there is little to no room for error on interrupts for DPS and tank to pull off. M+ boss fight is quicker than a raid fight and focuses more on that 0/1 execution that a raid would.
Wrathion: 3 people become responsible for running through pillars. Should they fail to pick it up in time or run through enough of them quickly enough, the pillars cannot be killed and the raid wipes due to massive ticking damage.
Skitra: If you get selected by the insanity, you must run out. If you don’t, you wipe the raid, and might kill people to whom you are invisible. Also, someone has to root the wall adds, otherwise the raid wipes to invisible mobs. One tank has responsibility to place markers - if he fails, the raid doesn’t know what to do kill and may wipe.
Maut: This one doesn’t actually have anything afaik. Just a little bit of add fiddling by the tank.
Xanesh: 3 people will 3 times be chosen to kick the ball. If any one of them fail, the entire raid instantly dies. Furthermore, 10 interruptors will be assigned, and if any one of them fails the raid will get feared, making it impossible to continue interrupts, which will wipe the raid.
Vexiona: Mages, and only mages are good at this, are assigned to make sure nobody stands alone in P2, and to make sure they’re the ones getting gripped in in P1.
Hivemind: Nothing here.
Ra’den: Every single player gets an assignment for handling the lightning, orbs, and circles in very specific orders, and those orders have to change sometimes depending on how things land. 7 markers are created to make sure everyone knows exactly where to go for each mechanic. If a single person fails at this, the entire raid dies immediately.
The dog: Every 2nd morsel must be fed to the boss. The player who runs out because of the add is responsible for this. If he fails, he enrages and kills the raid almost instantly. He may fail because he’s already picked it up, he must communicate this.
Drest’agath: Not much here, except the boss can’t die if you’re no good at picking up the black orbs. But yeah.
Il’gynoth: Circles grow and shrink on every player. If a healer fails to dispel at the exact right moment, the raid instantly wipes due to a chain reaction.
And I haven’t done the last two ones yet, but there will be plenty I’m sure.
So yeah. Plenty of “this guy must do that or the raid instantly wipes” mechanics. 0 room for error there.
That’s a special mode. Most people see raid as normal/HC. Helya in mythic had a dispel dance while in HC/N it was mostly handled by assigning who watches who for dispels (and no help from shadow priests would even be needed)… while the first boss of crucible of storms did have a typical single-responsibility mechanic which was kind of annoying as most people didn’t saw it even coming.
And? 460 gear is kinda trash right now. Plus, “spamming +11” is a joke, if you stop at +11, the ilvl of gear you get out of it makes no difference.
I really don’t know anyone who spams keys for gear, people who spam them do for the challenge in it.
Plus m+ are a great way to get alt ready for raiding and they move the economy because consumable use is very high.
As already pointed out before, gear from HC > gear from M+ in many cases. Trinkets above all, but also weapons with specific corruption.
And even if you gear that quickly, what does it change? Being full 460/465 is the new baseline, and it’s not going to help you achieve anything that difficult.
The prot pala discord taught me a lot in this regards, unless you’re playing for cutting edge, 90% of your failures comes from poor play from you rather than lack of gear.
It doesn’t change anything for Mythic raiders or anything “super difficult”. The OP is talking about a differnt group of players - those who think Heroic is an appropriate challenge for them. Those players exist, probably in the millions, so let’s take them seriously.
The reason why it’s bad to give out super good gear to them instantly is that they, like everybody else, want a progression curve where old bosses get progressively easier over time as they delve further and acquire more and more gear.
If they get gear too quickly, and under this system they will get it very quickly indeed, then they hit their iLvL cap very quickly, which means that the bosses must be tuned around this to provide a challenge, and thus they don’t become easier over time, which basically ruins their experience.
i do feel that the initial imlementation of flex was amazing - split into wings - you could choose which wing to do , each wing was taking under 30 minutes
it was huge huge mistake they went away from that model .
if they kept it - and implemented the same for hc just with demand to be in premade group to que raiding would be still very popular.
sadly they like always listened to raiders instead casuals and we have what we have - dead raiding and incredibly popular mythic +
the main concern is time - people simply dont have time nowadays to play for more then 30-60 minutes in 1 session . and game modes should either adapt or die and be removed
