Its called perseverance.
It doesnât change anything for them either.
Raid boss difficulties come from doing mechanics correctly, it hasnât been linked to gear and dps output in a long while. Sure there are always 1-2 easy bosses each raid, where tank and spank works, but i mean, even if your group is full 465, if you donât spread correctly on Ilâgynoth or fail the orbs at Xanesh, itâs still a wipe no matter the gear.
The only advantages in having lots of gear quickly is faster runs for people who know what to do, and the ability of carry a few people or alts without being 1 week from the next patch, which is very important to keep guild rooster full, and allows both boost runs and pug runs.
You are missing my point⌠(Whilst at the same time I think iâve possibly missed the exact point of the topic) I didnât say âelitists were gatekeeping contentâ, I said
I think Mythic+ is better for the simple fact that itâs easier for people to see your contribution. The size of the Raid group and the complexity of the encounters in todayâs âModern WoWâ lead to many of the âsmall heroic effortsâ being completely lost upon the raid group / leader and the game âsystemâ, i.e. A recognition that you did something well on a boss / bosses - you can go an entire dungeon without any ârewardâ (verbal or virtual).
Itâs not about elitism, itâs about making Raid Content that people want to play and doesnât take an age to run the guild through - if that means making tweaks to the format of âraidingâ to allow that (less trash, easier retries, better loot, buffs after X deaths) then so be it. Raid Finder, isnât conducive to this and whilst I truly believe in the spirit of the game having some kind of a difficulty curve, the raid boss âRNG mechanicsâ have completely gone in the opposite direction in BFA, to the point of frustration.
Anyway, before deviating too much, why not guarantee people reward for participation, without RNG or duplicate loot?
Thatâs just straight-up not correct.
During Legion it was pretty much correct, but BfA has been slightly better at this, and this patch is very good at it using Corruptions. Even thought I hate that system, I canât take this away from it.
Wrathion used to die in ~7 minutes in the first couple of weeks, now it takes less than 3. We used to have to take 4 teams on Xanesh, now we can get away with 3. We used to have to lust our way through the dogâs 2nd phase, now can pop it on pull and push the boss out of p2 with 5 stacks instead of 7 while using lust.
This is how it should be, but whatâs not how it should be is that this is delivered with corruption and RNG eventually, slowly, giving the raid on what they want in a raid setting. It should come from getting rewards - proper rewards - over time.
Whole this argument of âgearing only through M+ is betterâ crumbles when you realize - M+ wont give you azerite gear. Ever. You either have to wait weeks for essences from chest or be lucky with a chance of getting one piece per week.
More gear wonât give you a kill you canât achieve without, itâs just making it faster allowing to bring alt or carry pugs, like you described.
Having 3 teams instead of 4 at Xanesh is not making the fight easier, just quicker, you still have to do the same mechanics, just one time less.
Wrathion lasting 3 instead of 7 minutes makes no difference, you still wipe if you donât move or go in the wrong spot during burning cataclysm.
Sure there are exception to this rule: my guild has moved to a myth maut 2 tank strategy instead of 3 because the current gear allowed me to solo tank it until phase swap, but it works there and nowhere else. I still wipe at the dog if i screw up the taunt, no matter how much corruption i bring.
And no, itâs more pronounced here than in legion, nighthold for example become much easier the more gear you had because few bosses had mechanics not linked to pure dps output.
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Oh, well if it doesnât help getting a kill (i.e. make a potential wipe into a kill) to have higher stats, then I suppose Iâll just tell my raiders to stop using potions, flasks, food, runes, or vantus runes.
Yes, of course there are mechanics that will 1-shot you. Quite a few actually. But the vast majority of them can absolutely be outgeared; and thatâs a good thing.
If you deal more damage, then certain overlaps will never happen, certain 1-shot mechanics will never be cast, and players will, in general, not need to dodge as much stuff. They can just live their mistakes a lot of the time.
So yeah, gear absolutely does turn wipes into kills. Itâs ridiculous to suggest otherwise, as you just did.
While I do not dispute anything you said I am curious about two points you made about the bosses you have killed:
Vexiona: Is there a specific reason why only mages are baiting in P1? Why not Balance druids/Hunters who can handle the pull in mechanic easier with disengage? The stand alone part I personally do not get in the last phase. My raid group is stacked 100% of the time in P2, even when we have to run away from the boss we do it as a group (with the encroaching shadow people stacking together until the last few seconds.) Tanks stick together during Heart of Darkness to avoid being feared. How does your raid do it?
Ilâgynoth: The dispel isnât necessary. Just like with many other boss in the raid if you have enough DPS you can change up how the fight works. If you do not dispel the circle at any point everyone in the raid will have it, and thus nobody will get the mind control mechanic. The chain reaction part still applies though, so way more attention is needed on the bloods, and of course this isnât really a melee friendly tactic.
Xanesh and Raâden are really the bosses where mess-ups are going to wipe the raid for certain. Even on Shadâhar you can down the boss if you mess up the feeding mechanic if it is under a certain amount of HP (like 10%) but that is simply because of the breath mechanic he does. I am not sure about Carapace and Nâzoth because my guild is not quite there yet.
No.
My guild is a good example. We cleared full HC Nya and some Mythic Nya bosses while most of our dps are hardstuck at 30-40k dps max.
How are you going to time a +15 with ppl that do 30k dps? Most in our group do M+ 7-10 max and barely +1 it 
From where the hell do you get this info?
60% chance at 460 loot? link source?
20% chance from raid boss to get loot? link proof???
Druid doesnât have a disengage, and hunter disengage is a boosted backwards jump.
Mages can instantly blink / shimmer out.
Dont feed the troll, every week he makes this sh1t post, just swapping some words.
Balance druids do have a disengage if they take the Wild Charge talent.
With mage you have to turn around if you get pulled in (unless you blink in the first half a second of the pull to stay in place) otherwise you blink forward ahead of the pack.
You donât need to time it. Just complete it.
You do need to time a 14, however.
I run a casual community, that does teachings raids on Nm and HC. We also have a mythic group. A very CASUAL mythic group, that raids once a week and still manages to get boss kills!
I would like for them to bring tier sets back, or something similar. This would give an incentive to raid as well, although raids do usually drop the best trinkets. M+ is for quick gear, while raiding would be for the good gear.
Sure as are high keys. Most people also see M+ as going up to +15 where things that you mentioned, like failing kicks or having wipes, do not ruin runs at all. Those things only come at higher keys which are then equivalent to Mythic raiding in terms of personal performance.
I prefer players to play for fun. I just want good gear from dungeons. It is my main content where i spend âallâ my time in.
For heroic raiders you think it doesnât change anything that we can overgear it within the first 2 weeks because we get so much more gear thrown at us from m+? It takes away the sense of progression. And those of us for who heroic raid is endgame vastly outnumber mythic raiders.
It also messes up the tuning, because now heroic raids are balanced for groups that already outgear it due to m+. Heroic Nyâalotha is not tuned for ilvl 445, itâs tuned for 460+. All of the people lying that heroic is so easy are talking about clearing it in their 475 gear.
You get 480 azerite gear from doing +10, way better than heroic raid gear.
Pretty timegated though. And it is possible the last 2 bosses drop an azerite piece with darkness for your class.