I’m with you on this, the timer is stressful and creates a toxic environment. It’s nice for scores and races, but I just want to gear up with difficult dungeons, rather than playing to be the best and get gear in the process.
I have dogs, the people I play with have children, real life things often happen during M+ runs and this creates unnecessary stress. I don’t really want M+ gone, but it shouldn’t be the way of gearing up and it shouldn’t be the only way of running dungeons. Operation: Mechagon doesn’t count as you don’t exactly run this for end-game gear.
I don’t mind picking a +20 dungeon and end up wiping 100 times before we kill the boss. It will be a challenge. The problem is that we can never really push there easily because we won’t get passed the timer limits of lower keys. It’s not a difficulty challenge, it’s a stressful process where every mistake is punished.
I don’t even dare running M+ with pugs because I know they will be toxic towards me if I make a mistake as tank, or if I pick a non-optimal route, or pull a mob too much that causes a wipe.
Whenever I am asked by guildies for a quick low M+ (0,+2) if it’s ML I do pull all on the way to last boss (from 3rd to 4th) but instead of it being a DR I try to tank all. It’s completely doable an a bit of fun btw XDXD
Never had this problem in my groups. if we know someone can play their character, they can be feral, survival or something else. Just we need to know the damage output so we’d know which key to choose or if we need to get boosting shoes on.
I still believe you should play what you love and enjoy. Not change what others want you to be.
Whiny wow “community” always wanted epix, but casuals couldn’t raid, so the Endless QQ forced Blizz to invent other ways of gearing up.
Dungeons evolved from normal to heroic to mythic. Then made a perfect system that allows players to Choose the difficulty of said myhtics and get easy gear.
Now M+10 being wildly popular, the same whiny “community” rose up again and started crying that there’s a timer. All they wanted was to die their way to the m+10 chest and get their epix.
Blizz even made a weekly chest for them to get Mythic raid ilvl gear. And they can still get it by failing a single m+10 per week. It its still not good enough.
Whiny “PvP community” is crying that M+10 is a joke, but arena is super hard, so why cant they get m+10 ilvl gear from 1700 rating? Also, they cant get free epix from random BGs like before (but they can, actually)
At the same time everyone are whinig that WoW turned into a welfare epix rollercoaster, well isn’t that what you wanted and cried for?
Lets whine that blizzard isnt sending us full set of bis gear upon reaching max level (via a boost)?
WoW forums is the most pathetic place in the internet lol.
It would be easy to add a “slow mode” button when you insert your key that removes the timer but doubles the damage/health scaling.
In this mode you always get +1 level if you finish and only 2 drops. This way you take nothing away from the people that like the rush but you open harder dungeons to people willing to take a few hours including bathroom breaks and dealing with children trowing up unexpectedly.
I don’t feel like people being toxic towards me in the first place, so I avoid it. People can wait for an eternity for a tank for all I care, as long as this toxicity isn’t solved.
I both like and dislike the design of mythics. I play with a small group of friends and mythics allows us to play challenging content together.
My problem with mythics kind of has to do with the end game as a whole. With every new patch the gear grind begins anew but you’re essentially grinding for the exact same items. I genuinely do not care about loot. I want the challenge.
I do not like the key system either. I’d rather be able to pick a mythic level and then do whichever dungeon I please. The timer could still be there but shouldn’t punish you with a lower level key if you fail but rather just give you something extra if you succeed.
Bit of a tangent, but I think WoW suffers a lot from its vertical scaling. I don’t think they’ve ever gotten it right. If they had used a horizontal scaling system we’d have far more dungeons to play at end game. I’m getting kind of bored of the BfA dungeons and I find myself missing the mythics I did in Legion. With the current design I won’t be able to re-experience them for another 15 years. (Well, 14… but saying 15 for the effect)
But that is kinda how it worked before when we had so called “hard” heroics in cata and tbc.
We cced 50% of the mobs or you will get eaten alive by the damage. The dungeons were challenging (somewhat).
You can solve the cc to oblivion problem by 3 methods actually:
make mobs immune / change the race
make more mobs per group than available cc
Make bosses hard, so even if you bypass the trash by playing the waiting game, the bosses will rip you if you are bad
sure you can play 5 blood dks or some rubbish but that is more of a general design problem.
BL on every boss is actually fine because raids are designed in a similar way. To resolve this problem you could also just reset bl on every attempt like in raids and actually design bosses around having BL, I mean BL is now accessible to everybody…
M+ in general is a great idea as it is but there are still certain things that should improve…
Choosing a key like in D3 would be a lot better and would force better dungeon balance, alternatively give a weekly quest to do 5 or 10 different dungeons for gold or whatnot.
Remove the stupid weekly chest
Remove garbage titanforging
remove some stupid affixes… I mean sanguine in TD that heals the boss to full because he run through the pools to open the gates, while you hardly can control the pools before because the mobs flee while low… you can control it but it takes so much effort that it is just anti fun
generally there are affixes that are not challenging but anti fun (explosive, quaking, sanguine…)
This doesnt sound like a bad idea tbh, i would never do it but it does sound like a nice idea, however id like to add that they should make it so that once you have checked the slowmode button, for that key you cannot go back, otherwise it would be extremely easy to level up keys and then suddenly do it the normal way with the timer and that doesnt feel right to me
Well. I kinda disagree making m+ dungeons into “mini 5-man raids”. M+ and raids being vastly different from each other adds some uniqueness…in a way.
Both are challenging but different so obviously there will people who like 1 but dislike the other. For some m+ is a mindless timed hamster wheel but for others they see the challenge of making sure the group can run to max efficiency starting from the point the key is inserted to the last boss/trash killing blow.
For some raiding is boring. Kill the boss once, get the “a-b-c’s” right and then just rinse&repeat. The boss wont change next week…
No, you clearly didn’t play back then. They were clown fiesta. As a feral druid that was almost armor capped when I entered heroic dungeons in TBC, the damage was very low. CC was not needed at all, I could take the beating with no problems. In cataclysm we CCed the first time we did the heroics because people said it’s oh so hard, can no longer just aoe everything. Wrong. We started aoeing everything the first week without CCing.
I play since early tbc, so yea I know all the stuff since then. TBC dungeons were also clown fiesta, like everything was and still is. No idea what is your point. Magisters terace with randoms at release was pretty hard because everything was magic dmg and mobs had lots of cc, so it was kind of difficult and we cced a lot of mobs.
So it is still possible to tune as I said to make dungeons harder without timer even if you cc every grp pack into oblivion
