Mythic+ rewards

Gameplay Dungeons, Raids and Scenarios
81

Tbh, i kinda like what you are saying. Okay, let’s think about it a bit.

Raiding is the essence of WoW. That’s true, that what was so great and cool, like 40 ppl gathering together, building their own community, guilds, they were something like a big family. Raids are giving us lore, main theme, etc. That’s great. Moreover, raids were providing us a bis loot most of the time.

And yeah, in this game you are expected to do various activities. But nowadays we have normal, heroic and mythic difficulty + keys + pvp.

So now i’am not just supposed to do various activities, but also to do 'em all on a high lvl. Because if I wanna push 23+ keys, I should go to arena and get 2100, I should clear at least half of the mythic raid and only after that (and when I will get lucky to get items) I will be allowed to do my mythic+ stuff. And you know what I will get for that? Nothing. That’s the main problem. My efforts are not getting rewarded. That’s the main thing.

Imagine clearing full mythic raid and all you get is some useless bunch of gear, that is not even usefull anywhere. You will not loot any mounts, pets, tmog, title or whatever. Imagine it as the hardest content in the game, which can be provided by Blizzard. Would you be upset?

As for me, there is literally nothing new in WoW raids, it’s all the same mechanics, some changes a bit, some not, but the core of it is the same. Doing mythic raid can barely compete with 22 keys or even lower, where 1 mistake, 1 wipe could lead to depleting the key.

So does it happened before when we had so tough and hard raids and all we got was nothing? Does it happened before that if you wanted to go in let’s say ICC you needed to hit high arena rating?

As i told before, if this really goes live next patch, if the ilvl of mythic+ would be fixated and nothing more, that will be a huge punch to mythic+ players.

That’s just not right and not fair at all. In each season there are less players in mythic+, what will happen after fixating the ilvl, making keys even harder with all those corruptions of items (like i can barely imagine what it is like to be slowed randomly in keys), and what ppl would get? Heroic raid difficulty items, but from keys. Same boots, pants, gloves, trinkets as they were 3 seasons before, nothing changes, and soon this gear couldn’t be even tfed or wfed, while in raids it would be +15 ilvl with new trinkets, weapons and procs.

Shame

2 Likes
82

From a bigger storytelling and lore perspective within WoW, dungeons have always been there as side stories or more so to support the main story which in each expansion leads us to the grand finale taking place in… a raid. Put it that way, it doesn’t make any sense either that we would be rewarded as highly from them.

Now, I perfectly understand that keypushers would like the goodies. But do you want just the means (=gear) to push, or better rewards from completion? Since running +20s is such a niche thing anyway. The dungeons scale infinitely so where does it stop? You would need a never-ending supply of always better and better gear if you don’t wanna hit the wall. :nerd_face:

And somehow people still push those keys, even if there’s not a shiny reward in the end… :thinking:

83

That’s called hope :smile:
Each season less players. System of rewards may change something.

84

I think a way to do it would be have either M15 or 20 only be 5ilvls lower than mythic raid… the 15ilvl gap is to big a difference for people only wanting to do M+

85

I honestly don’t care at all. I got the kill, I got the loot, I carried my weight. I’m not a top end mythic player, I don’t care for that, I play for fun. If you think that 100% of the players go for BiS for everything, you’re severely mistaken.

86

Okay, i got your position. So do you agree that people doing high mythic+ should be rewarded or not?

87

People doing M+ are rewarded, albeit on the low side when it comes to M+ vs Mythic raiding. I’m not sure if the removal of WF and TF will be a positive thing in 8.3, especially for tanks. I wouldn’t mind if the increase in item level would be pulled a bit further but this wouldn’t solve the problem. You’d end up with (8.2 example) 440 gear in +12 or +14 for example.

I rather see a system where titan residuum is used to purchase item upgrades, similar to benthic gear. You want Mythic raiding level gear? You can get it, eventually… +20 will obviously be a lot faster than someone doing +10s. Perhaps a new token could be introduced that only drops from +10 or higher, idk. There are a ton of possibilities.

As much as I like raiding, current mythic raiding feels like it’s something only the elite players can do. If you have a real life, it’s hard to participate. If you play a class that is not meta, it’s hard to participate. If you’re on a low pop server, it’s even harder to participate. They made Mythic bosses increasingly complex, you have to keep track of so many different things at the same time, that this content is simply not made for the biggest portion of the players. This means I can’t enjoy this content, even if I wanted to, because it means I’d have to leave friends behind.

The above sums up the fact that I’ll probably never have mythic raiding gear because I simply can’t play it due to several factors. I’m okay with that. However, there’s a ton of content that I can play which currently never will give me anything close to raiding gear (especially as of 8.3). I’ll probably never get anything close to +20 done. My highest timed runs are only +12 at the moment, though I’m still gearing up and learning my class. My aim is to complete one +15 in time this season, which to my is quite an achievement and feels like this should be the level of “you’re now starting Mythic raiding difficulty content”.

I’m really hoping that Torghast in 9.0 will fill this gap for me.

1 Like
88

Yeah, 2 sides. For me it’s easy and for you it’s like a mythic raiding doing +15. Maybe if you just started to learn this game, it may be difficult, but I was playing for a long time, and all this “new” raid mechanics seems similar to what I’ve seen before.

For me, looting 430 gear in 20+ keys is unacceptable, I can’t even call it a reward, it’s just a bunch of ores and leather after you disenchant it.

Btw, guess why right now ppl push so high, why monks started to be the main tanks in high keys, it’s all because of the raid trinkets. 4th and 6th bosses. If you are a monk, but without urchin, any protwarrior is better than you, but if u have an urchin - u r beast. Especially raid trinkets made this real. Wearing x2 folly can give sometimes like 7%+ overall in high key.

Tbh this “item upgrades” doesn’t matter much, it won’t solve the problem, while i will still need to do arena and raid on a high lvl if I want to go high keys. But things like that are kinda not okay. It requires a lot of time and not to mention that if i want to do pve content (mythic+) on a high lvl ofc I need every bis item to progress further (progression is the essence of rpg, right?), and woooop my bis chest is from 2100 arena, noice. Besides the fact that I’am not getting anything for those mythic+.

P.s. You can transfer to alliance and /w me if you need some help in +15 : D

3 Likes
89

Eww Alliance D:

90

i am agree with you there must be gear to equal mythic raid drops or a chance to get it maybe at m+25.
Because there are lots of players who play alone this game … And Blizzard doing more content to play alone not with guild.With the shadowlands players will be more alone.

91

Considering raiding as the only endgame content will just end up killing the game, though. By forcing a player to go one specific way, you kill all the fun said player may have with the game, and will likely end up losing them. Sure, having raiding as the endgame worked well in the past, but times have changed. WoW has grown since its release, and so have a lot of other games too: A FPS is no longer just a deathmatch or CTF against other people. Now you can also play zombie mode (in CoD at least) or the highly successful battle royale.

Even Blizzard know about this, if you look around at some of their other games. In Overwatch, they’ve experimented with competitive playing not just being 6v6, but also in 1v1 and 3v3. Also in Hearthstone do you have multiple ways to enjoy the “endgame” aspect of the game; either by doing standard with the newest cards or wild with all the games ever added, and possibly the new mode battlegrounds sometime in the future too?

So why should WoW be the only game that’d like to stick to the past like glue, and refuse the playerbase to challenge themselves in other ways than just raiding?

2 Likes
92

Dear god no, nobody is saying “I want better stuff then the next guy”.
With how gear is handed now, you’ll always need to do all content if you’re aiming for the tippy top of the mountain.
Loot table for dungeons hasn’t changed one bit the whole expansion.
While with each new raid, new items are delivered.
So the top dogs, are going to farm the raids for that inkpod regardless.
Or whatever hot item they create in the next tier.

And to repeat the words we’ve been saying but put more simply and bluntly.

Next patch, titanforging is going away.
We would celebrate this since TF is an less then ideal system.
But for M+ players this is a gigantic punch in the gut, because we don’t even have the option of getting gear that’s similar or equal even if it’s just ilvl and none of the cool procs etc.
So if I want to give my best, playing content I want to. And push keys with my friends as a means of end game content.
I am going to be severely handicapped unless I go get a full set from the raid.
I.e. not only do I have to do bland boring stuff like farming AP, Essences (which is a whole nother topic) and other resources. I also have to add raiding onto the list. Just to do keys.

Keys are now another path of end-game gameplay.
A lot of people have accepted this with arms wide open.
And some of us, have no interest in returning to raiding and would much rather spend our time. In the game that we pay for, to play content we actually enjoy.

I’m not even going to try speculate what system would be better for M+, since that’s the Blizz’s devs job to do. But they should know from us though, that currently, none of this is working for anyone except raiders.
And if that’s their intent. I and many others think it’s a big waste and a shame.

And in a perfect world, I could log on. And progress my character doing stuff that’s fun and I wouldn’t have to touch raiding in terms of things like loot. To progress my keys.

But obviously Blizz wants you to invest as much time as you can into their game.
So i guess the bigger question is, do you think forcing others to play content they do not enjoy is going to be healthy for the game?.
Already it’s annoying enough to do a crapton of PvP for essences, and spend a lot of time grinding rep and spare parts azerite power etc. But all of this can be done on my own pace. In my own time. But I do not want to raid, a lot of players don’t want to raid.
So effectively this means, for me to enjoy the game the way I want.
I have to spend more time then the average raider on it. Just to do what I like and have fun with.

“Raiding is the essence of the game” argument is weak, and if it were so. Then I question if having more paths would actually take away that said “essence” even if said path is hard as bricks as well, and even has the potential to be harder.

2 Likes
93

Precisely! And besides, if raiding is indeed the endgame of WoW, then why even bother adding M+ to the game to begin with, with a weekly chest and achievements, and a mount + title soon?

1 Like
94

Raiding is the essence, but on the other side we have MDI zulul.

1 Like
95

I would simply ignore the comment of one, it’s not like this person represents everyone :smiley: I wouldn’t try to convince someone that clearly shows they can’t be… I do agree with you, I have a main that does raiding, but I am now also doing raid content for some healing trinks.

I do buy his azerite armor now with the gamble merchant. I don’t see why people who play M+, shouldn’t either via drops or a merchant be able to get specific M+ gear. The 200k azerite gear is a bit too expensive tbh. This game isn’t just for raiders.

96

Right now raiding definitely is not the essence of wow in global terms. Like if I need lore, then I’am just doing quests, if I need to know so what is the end of this story (if it leads to an raid), then I can just go lfr and faceroll it. It can’t be compared to good old days, when 40 ppl fought together.

The essence of wow is different for every1 nowadays, but one thing for sure is that you want your way of playing to be rewarded

97

Right now I just don’t see the point of doing high keys, esp. with pugs that leave as soon as one tiny mistake is made. Plus, at the end, opening the chest is like…vendor…I haven’t even gotten a TF in ages. Sure I do it for the challenge, but if I want to go do more higher keys, I do require gear upgrades, and I don’t get that from M+, unless I luckily roll a TF.

Gear wise, doing M+10’s is enough. I just do higher keys, since I don’t like doing content that is easy for me, or boring. I don’t even to WFs any more, even if an alts may need the item, I now just do content I enjoy. I also still enjoy doing a raid, but raiding more than 2 nights a week for me is too much. At least now you can zerg through a HC run.

I am still trying to find a group to do M+ with, in our guild I only see runs done by specific people, officers, I have joined some discord groups, also there you see people making fixed groups, and I am done with pugs, it’s just frustrating, esp. in high keys you need communication by voice.

98

Have you seen it? 475 from weekly chest. Does it solve the problem? Nope

100

then what do you want?
You get mount, title, max heroic loot (for repeatable content), max loot for highest ilvl in game, a infinite scaling currency to buy max ilvl gear (azerite)

obviously m+20 cannot reward ilvl 500 gear while the rest of the game caps at 475.
the loot is locked into dungeons which is a problem. I would also prefer if they update the loot table every season with fresh items. Now I always have to chase the same stupid items again every season. kind of boring

101

You can’t decide that not having something that makes no sense (infinitely scaling loot) is a “problem”

Or am I completely misunderstanding what you want here?