The people who are complaining about DH tanks and the meta being about kiting are missing something important.
It isn’t the devs who have made it that way; it’s the PLAYERS.
Every tank class reaches a limit in what they can facetank. Once that limit is reached, players are not going to say, “Ah, OK, looks like that’s the highest key we can do this patch.” No, they’re going to look for ways to push higher keys, and the only way is for the tank to get out of melee range to stay alive.
That’s why the meta is always going to be the class that has good mobility and the highest damage.
In BfA, it was warrior for that exact reason.
In SL, it’s DH for the same reason.
Nerfing DH damage is not going to make all tanks suddenly equal. Since warrior has been nerfed so badly, the meta will most likely switch to monk as the other highly mobile class.
If you want all tanks to have the same ability to do the highest keys, they need to have the same mobility. Then you can get to balancing damage output.
If you give the same mobilty to all the tanks you’ll create a whole new set of problems. I’m agile as a lamppost: if suddenly i can run around like usain bolt i’ll be unstoppable because i got plenty of dmg, massive self heal and several tons of cd.
Balance it’s not black and white, require finesse, something blizz lost ages ago.
You’re missing the point. When incoming damage reaches the point where no tank can survive it, the only one that can keep going is the one that can stay out of melee range while still keeping aggro.
I’m not, you are.
First, there is nothing wrong in the existence of a matematical cap where something is simply not doable.
Second, if kiting is the only option, all the tanks should be able to do it, but at that point, considering that the current design is balanced around being solid and slow, or fragile and fast, there is much more to be done to balance stuff, otherwise you’re simply moving the “meta” from a class to another.
“just add mobility” is a crappy solution.
And on top of that there are big consideration to be made around the general design of classes and dungeons which impacts massively on the meta and the balance. Adding target cap to mostly revert it by adding nonsense bonuses in every dungeon is not really an example of great design and despite bfa, dungeons are once again filled with trash that requires once again a big pull meta strategies that favors once again big dmg and kiting.
As key levels go up, there will always come a point where no class can facetank enough incoming damage to complete the content.
I think we’re agreed on that.
Once we get to that point, any tank that can get out of melee range and stop taking damage has an advantage over a tank that can’t. It doesn’t matter how you design dungeons. Unless you enclose every pack in its own little sealed room, that isn’t going to change.
That only prevents kiting on the first pack, and then only if they’re right up close to the entrance. You just move back into the area you’ve already cleared.
And is a BFA season2 15 the same as a SL season1 15?
No it isn’t so you can’t just compare it with your eyes closed to that fact
You’re trying to compare oranges and apples … doesn’t work
It does.
Because if the design is just “make a bigger stronger pack” all the time nothing is going to change.
Instead if for once they start to spend more than 20 minutes on design and add more minibosses or traps or mobs where more than pure numbers is doing mechanics correctly that makes the difference, there will be more variety and less reliance on movement only
And once everyone is doing the mechanics correctly, it becomes about the numbers again.
Not that it makes a difference to anyone posting in this discussion because none of us are doing content difficult enough that we couldn’t dramatically improve our performance by just… playing better. It’s just easier to whine about ‘lack of balance’ or that ‘(insert random class here) is meta’ than to put in the effort to improve your own skill.
Well. Ideally, that’s how it should be. In practice, you’ll instead see people whip out their…DPS meters, and whine about DPS after having failed mechanics. This happens on almost all levels of play, including high keys and HC raiding.
Because who cares about mechanics, we just need enough DPS to not have to deal with them!
I dont agree with the other tank comment
Paladin has the most utility, insane dmg but lacks in surviving cause he took a huge nerf to his armor, and is all paladin has,
For example DH gets, armor and parry chance, druid takes armor as well but has way too much hp, but pala takes only armor from his SoR but isnt enough to tank the pack.
My dh tank is 197i lvl with 51k hp and my pala is 205 with 47k hp.
WHAT?
Yes players created meta gaming.
But developers can tune numbers in dungeon and class design can be little bit better??
If only they look at % and what players are doing in game
Warrior was meta in BFA.
Yes and why? did you really think because of players? Because devs again buffed or nerfed something. players only noticed something is different with warrior so they took advantage
I don’t want to reroll every patch only because some classes are OP
I don’t want from them to nerf DH to same lvl as bad tank…buff bad tanks to DH lvl for example.
Just like why nerf fun and OP classes in PVP? just buff bad classes why always nerfing?
let’s be real here Developers doesn’t play this game anymore so they don’t understand the playerbase
And let’s be real here again why are they creating this game for ESport?
THIS game will never be ESport blizzard missed chance just like they missed chance with DOTA
Yes I realize that every tank in the game is capable of doing keys up to +18-19 at the moment. But that doesn’t take away from the fact a large portion of trash does so much damage that kiting is the only option, and this happens way too early in terms of keystone level. My DH is just a few itemlevels ahead of my DK atm, and I can do keys 2-3 levels higher with roughly the same skill/effort because of it’s kiting capabilities and how extremely durable they are with Metamorphosis up. And I’m not even Kyrian, which is even stronger for M+…
At any difficulty level I can replace my DK with a Demon Hunter and simply have faster and smoother runs. It’s obviously not needed at +10, but outside of a few situations where grip or AMS is very useful there has not been a single instance where I though “Oh, this would have been so much easier on my DK”.
I had a choice earlier in the season where the imbalance was becoming more and more apparent:
Be stubborn and keep playing my DK, despite that it’s more demanding for everyone in my group and we will have slower progression as a team.
Swap my DH alt to main team to make our runs smoother and progress faster. Eventually my DK will catch up on gear/keystone level, and by then maybe more tank tuning has happened and the gap between them has been reigned in.
Even if Blood DK is my favorite tank in the game, it still wasn’t a very hard choice.
you can’t compare to s1 of bfa, it wasn’t as toxic as later patches for tanks. so I guess you can’t compare at all and you have to do with data from now only.
i really love the hate against Vengeance Demon hunters i rlly do, first off i like being THE BEST TANK atm ingame its about time they got some Love of Blizz, they stood 2 Seasons long in the shadows, now for all the crybabies out there when you are searching for a M+ group you all want a Vengeance DH, well if i am on my healer i would like to have a Bear Tank because their Mitigation is SICK,a Bad Vengeance DH will be killed asap because not using their CD’s properly.
but ye its freaking about time that Vengeance is on the right spot this season, and ow ye i rlly hope that blizzard isnt going to nerf Vengeance when patch 9.1 Hits servers because i rlly am afraid that they are going to do that because of the WHINING of all the CRYBABIES.
