Haha, nice one.
Our red bros can keep her.
Or better, we can collectively shove her into a trashbin where she belongs.
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You make me a sad rabbit =\
Also implies killing everything the Forsaken stand for.
Also Undeads canât use the Light unless theyâre lightforged like Calia, so you would have a whole new generation of Forsaken (made of fresh corpses so to speak 
), independent from the ones already existing in the Horde.
I can see it happening. A generation of troll Paladins defected to the Alliance because⊠Talanji cut their salaries?
Ethereals, Vrykul, some of the SL factions ⊠these are some that come to my mind. Thereâs plenty of options.
She is but she doesnât have to lead a generation of new Forsaken. She can have plenty of uses outside the Forsaken.
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Well, on paper there are ex-scourge drakkari⊠but I am not even sure what they are, because they killed and absorbed loas. So are they alive, or spirits? I have no idea. Seems to be overly complicated case.
On a flip side, with alliance forsaken itâs easy to explain undead paladins 
Canât really explain why would they suddenly become enemies of the living without having a choice IMO.
How do you do transmog for them?
Too big. And we already have small ones. Some are even in the horde, as undead. 
Unless they are like pandarens people would complain non-stop.
Letâs agree just on her being a better fit in the alliance.
That was about the gathering, Calia tried to get Forsaken to defect to the Alliance, those were killed. Conceding ; There were probably more Forsaken who wanted to see their relatives, but they werenât there, so they Didnât get the âchoice to atleast give that a tryâ, I have a suspicion it wouldnât have ended well for them either, but yeah, admitted, guessing there.
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No no, that was the other way around. Calia was looking if her family could show up. That were the forsaken members who asked Calia if she could get them into the alliance.
And only limited number could come close, so most were probably not even aware that Calia could give them that option. And maybe they thought that she is dead, until she appeared in Orgrimmar.
I think that during the gathering they could see that even the presence of the king could not save those who tried. So if they would try to help someone in the alliance before, instead of the help they would just make them a target for Sylvanas or her followers.
So, maybe they never truly had anyone to guide them to that opportunity. And what could they do, as they saw experiments of some forsaken, or them attacking Hilsbrad, and other places? Could be a tragic story if somebody would try to polish it.
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I agree about Lightforged Forsaken. It sort of goes against all pre established lore. Calia is/must stay special occasion. She was resurrected in a very, peculiar circumstances that require a lightbulb and two different forces channeling the power.
Flinging that concept back and forth would just create different race altogether.
It is one of those sad examples when the presentation of the story within the game makes things look⊠awkward. Using the light by the forsaken has some unpleasant consequences, I would assume, mentally taxing. From wowpedia:
Though painful, this does not cause any actual harm or damage on their undead bodies, even over long periods of time. In fact, some Forsaken with persistent contact with the Light over many years have even started to experience a return of their senses, which is not a pleasant experience given their rotted state.
So yeah, getting back capability to feel positive emotions is possible, but on a flip side, feeling oneâs rotting body, smell, etc. might be not for the faint of heart.
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They became enemies of the living because the living went on a crusade to exterminate them.
Yes, things have changed in time (as weâve seen with the Desolate council) but thatâs how it started.
Also undead paladins bleeh, just why. Thereâs so many options for paladins these days. Their whole theme is darkness, sorrow and death. I see no place for the Light in their ranks. Yes, there are a few exceptions here and there but it shouldnât become a normality.
Their fantasy is cool as it is. Theyâre the edgy, pissed, emo dead guys. Thatâs what makes them special.
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Uhm.
You sure it wasnât the other way around?
Having broken free from the tyrannical rule of the Lich King, a renegade group of undead seek to retain their own free will while destroying all those who oppose them. Known as the Forsaken, this group is dedicated to serving their leader, the banshee queen Sylvanas Windrunner. These dark warriors have established a secret stronghold beneath the ruins of Lordaeronâs former capital city. Situated deep beneath the cursed Tirisfal Glades, the labyrinthine Undercity is a sprawling bastion of evil. Within its shadowy confines, Sylvanasâ royal apothecaries scramble to develop a devastating new plague - one which will not only eradicate their hated Scourge rivals, but the rest of humanity as well. To further their dark aims, the Forsaken have entered into an alliance of convenience with the primitive, brutish races of the Horde. Holding no real loyalty for their newfound comrades, the Forsaken have duped them into fighting against their common enemy - the Lich King. Only time will tell how these disciples of doom will fare in their mission of vengeance.
The humans and the New Alliance accepted the Forsaken as allies, until the Forsaken murdered their Grand Marshal and threw off his corpse to be eaten by ghouls.
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Maybe I explained it poorly. Iâm sorry, English is not my native language.
I ment to say, that I frequently see this idea of âundead paladinâ and just added that as a bonus, it would be possible to explain their existence if some would make a choice to continue their duty after death, if they would see that being an undead does not make one into a monster, and some could join the horde, because the horde has some people who also deserve their help and protection.
But this concept is unlikely to ever be possible if all of the forsaken are anti-alliance - why live a life of protector and make a choice to become an enemy?
I am not the right person to ask, but I see that idea frequently on reddit and us forums.
Probably. I do not know about this part too much. At some point I had a thought, if Meryl Felstorm is an undead who is powered by arcana and not necromancy, could the forsaken start a research on using other sources of power to help them to continue their existence? But I know to little, so I can just wonder about the theory of undead being a conduit for something other than âdeathâ and necromancy.
Totally agree. (which is one of the reasons I hope Calia will not be able to change them - that would be a big loss for the fantasy of the game IMO)
[ninja edit: I am one of those who thinks that Calia could be a great character. But, in the alliance]
The way I see it is that the âambassadorsâ of the forsaken have never returned, and they assumed they were killed by the alliance, but theyâve never researched other options. I think there could also be:
-
They could be killed by alliance humans who knew nothing about the difference between the scourge undead and the forsaken.
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They could be killed by a random dire beast.
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They could be killed by bandits / naga / whoever else who is sentient and not related to the alliance.
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They could be one of the first forsaken, not know much about consequences of being a forsaken, and as they got from more cold northern areas, could start to decompose faster and either fall apart or turn into a mindless undead attacking anything they see.
However, actions that were done later by the forsaken made sure that the regular people in the alliance see that becoming undead turns everyone into monsters. Even if the origin of why the forsaken made a choice to join the horde and not try to send anyone else into the alliance might not necessary be all that justified. Or maybe it was, but I havenât seen such info.
Actually, would Bolvar, Onyxia, or Varian even accept them? That is an interesting idea.
Even then, the ambassadors happened after the Forsaken killed the New Allianceâs Grand Marshal in betrayal to their pact.
The Alliance is neither racist nor overzealous for dispatching these cannibalistic, murderous âdisciples of doomâ, and certainly we canât consider the ambassadorsâ disappearances the start of the enmity between the undead and the living if the Forsaken were already being hostile by killing living human leaders.
I find this âambassadorâ retcon to be particularly weird. The Forsaken absolutely did not need to be victimised. They were cruel monsters and bringers of death, and they were happy to annihilate anyone who stood in their way, or was no longer useful to their devilish ploys.
Thatâs good, theyâre dark, theyâre unapologetic, theyâre frightening figures of evil and vengeance. They did not need a half-hearted retcon to portray them as if they were oppressed underdogs âforcedâ into killing the living.
To add onto this, recalling the times when the Forsaken were allied with the humans:
"We are abandoned. We are⊠forsaken. But when the sun rises tomorrow, the capital will be ours, " she pronounced. And now they roared.
âBut what of the humans?â a young alchemist asked as the din faded. Sylvanas recognized him from the previous nightâs fighting. A cool intelligence flickered in his eye sockets: Lydon was his name. Already heâd come to embrace his situation, referring to humans as if they were a separate race; she made a mental note to make use of him.
âThe humans will serve their purpose,â she answered, her mind already calculating. âThey believe they are liberating the city. Let them fight on our behalf and spend themselves for our gain. They areââshe stumbled upon an analogy sheâd used beforeââarrows in our quiver.â
Edge of Night, pg 3
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We still donât know if the Alliance even knew of Garithos fate at the time the Forsaken ambassadors approached them.
We do, however, know they know about it now as excerpts from the new âExploring Azerothâ novel confirm.
Ironically, Shaw says his fate was âterrible, but better than he deservedâ as he blames him and his actions for losing the Blood Elves to the horde.
( He also claims Kaelâthas people renamed themselves Sinâdorei because of those events, so Iâm not sure if this can even be considered canon 
)
Under current projections, I wouldnât be surprised if this was retconned again into âSylvanas herself killed those ambassadors because sheâs just that evil.â
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Assuming that every single human, dwarf and gnome at Lordaeron was either killed or âmade to disappearâ, therefore making it impossible for anyone else to knowâŠ
âŠWhat do you think would be their guess? Wouldnât they have good reason to suspect there was foul play on Garithos and his armyâs disappearance?
Whichever the case, it was not long after that the Forsaken began utilising humans and dwarves as guinea pigs for their experiments.
Oh, welp! Then they are aware of how he died. We got our answer, we can end it h -
Seriously�
Would honestly not be surprised.
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I mean, probably? But the impression I get is that they didnât hold a grudge against the Forsaken because of that ( neither then nor now ) but were rather content the âproblemâ was dealt with one way or the other.
Yep.
Cannot post links sadly. But the exact wording is:
âHis bigotry cost the alliance the Blood Elves, who, in their anger, eventually renamed themselves sinâdorei which means âchildren of the bloodâ, and cast their lot in with the horde.â
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Well, that and a few more things could have really excused the humans and dwarves for thinking the Forsaken were in fact monsters instead of your usual diplomats.
I strongly doubt it was prejudice for prejudiceâs sake as Nathanos puts it, since in that case weâd have to ignore how the Forsaken come to be. If Othmar Garithos of all people was open to negotiations, and an outright alliance with the Forsaken, the idea that the actual Alliance would instead show zero tolerance on a whim is a bit weird.
But just as well that line in Chronicles is so incredibly nebulous Iâm afraid a hundred people could read it and a hundred people could come to a hundred different interpretations.
While then there could have been a lining of ignorance from the Alliance being unaware of how truly monstrous the Forsaken were, now we have a rather extensive list, with a lot of Southshore, plenty of Gilneas, and an ocean of Blight to keep the Alliance belief that the Forsaken are fiends going strong until the end of the Forsaken.
Sometimes itâs just sad how little these writers know of the story theyâre writing for.
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Not âon a whimâ exactly.
I suppose they just would make no distinction between Forsaken and scourge ( as the Scarlets do to this day ).
An understandable reaction on their part at the time, but likewise understandable that the Forsaken would feel- well- forsaken by them.
Provided, of course, it really played out like that.
But why would Nathanos lie about it? He doesnât strike me as someone whoâd need made-up justifications for what heâs doing.
Sure. Not arguing any of that. Usage of blight and raising their dead enemies is common Forsaken warfare. Itâs what gives them an edge when they arenât otherwise competitive.
Either that or they just want to confirm Shawâs reputation as worst spymaster ever? I mean, he should know better.
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While they themselves forsook the humans first by betraying the pact they made and denying them of their capitol city?
âLet them fight on our behalf and spend themselves for our gain.â
Doesnât it ring a bit hollow to you with that in perspective?
Then again, the whole thing about the ambassadors is so vague, I would have liked to have known more of how it all went down.
Seeing how Sylvanas in Before the Storm developed a knack for deleting history and burning books, maybe he himself was lied to.
The way Nathanos portrays it, the Forsaken were rejected for no fault of their own, but the prejudice and arrogance of the living.
I donât think thatâs entirely truthful either.
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Me too. But as I said, at this point, I wouldnât be surprised if we learn that those ambassadors never reached their destination at all but were killed by Sylvanas herself to prove âhumans are our enemiesâ.
âBefore the Stormâ did massive damage to Forsaken lore, but since most of Sylvanasâ inner thoughts in the book have been retconned as well, I prefer to view it as non-canon by now.
I agree. As with every case of personal assessment, itâs probably neither entirely true nor entirely wrong.
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Do you honestly believe Garithos would have not backstabbed Sylvanas had he the chance first?
We will never know for certain, but Iâm heavily leaning towards he would have - seeing as how he treated the other races, the blood Elves for example, my guess he would have little scruples over giving the kill command on a bunch of âScourge likeâ renegades. He sure would have gotten away with it, in the current time and setting.
Realistically speaking, I wouldnât 've even blamed him.
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