Surprising as it is for Garithos, he fulfilled his part of the bargain. What could have come after we will never know for certain, as you said.
At the very least, we know he didn’t plan to kill the Forsaken right there and then. He rudely commanded them to leave, showing that he was going to let them live, at least for the time being.
But, with Garithos in charge of the capital, well, let’s just say that WoW would have had a much scarier Alliance set on the stage, and I could definitely see him hunting down the Forsaken once he was properly settled in, thus forcing the Forsaken into the Horde as unjustly persecuted misfits.
I think those would have fit in quicker, if not altogether better, with the Horde, than the “disciples of doom” we instead had.
TL;DR: Yes, I think that Garithos would have eventually backstabbed the Forsaken when it felt more convenient to him. Sylvanas did the smart thing in killing him.
If you’ll have some free time, could you please tell me if Sylvanas was just confiscating the books and locking them somewhere, or she was outright destroying them?
Well, if you really try hard, it might be possible to portray her as a character that expected one way of going about things, but then to be thrown into a more rapid pace of events when she had to escalate things as rapidly as she could, using every opportunity.
I can also note one peculiar thing. Dark Mirror was released before BtS. And in this short story it is shown very clearly, that Sylvanas treats the dark val’kyrs just like Arthas treated the forsaken when they were under his control.
We’ll never know. But I wonder, even if he would not, could the forsaken be accepted by any of the alliance leaders of the time to begin with? Onyxia… excuse me, lady Prestor, Bolvar, or later - Varian.
We do not know how the time Anduin will spend with Sylvanas will change him (did she sent away Nathanos to spend some time with Anduin? )
We can get more influence from Tyrande, Genn (also not a fan of the horde iirc), returning heroes (Alleria and Tyralion). Maybe the devs will even go all in on “worthy of the name Menethil” theme and we get someone from the scourge as a part of the alliance (I can totally see san’layn as an easy fit). But we have to wait and see.
Sure! Here is the exact passage quoted from Before the Storm, chapter 12:
Once or twice, Parqual had sneaked into his former lodgings, smuggling books into the Undercity. But he had been caught once and admonished. His books had been confiscated. There is no need to remember the human history of this place, he had been told. Only the history of the Undercity matters now.
Garithos was going to hunt them down either way, like it has been discussed earlier.
I think this is where they’re trying to take the Forsaken story, as seen in Shadows Rising, with the Apothecary protecting the group Alleria and Turalyon encountered.
While I don’t necessarily agree that the Forsaken should change their view and become protectors of the living, I must admit it somehow makes sense. Not all of them became haters of the living after were raised. Some of them went on to become healers and serve the living just as some swore to destroy them.
And if I’m being really honest here, I kind of like that. I mean not all living are enemies and are trying to destroy them. Some of them actually accept them and see them as valuable allies.
While I’m all about edgy, dark and mean dead people I also have to admit when things make sense and this, to me, makes perfect sense. Especially now, in the context where the Forsaken need their allies more than ever.
I’m personally against it. It’s one thing to use your dark magic to help the living and another thing to all of a sudden become a servant of the Light.
Ugh… what’s one more nail in her coffin at this point?
IMO this is where Calia might fit really well. If all “protect the living” crowd leave, the horde will keep “leave the past lives behind” member. Like what Lilias said to Zelling. Easy to explain why the forsaken would stay anti-alliance, if there would be no “pro-alliance” members left.
Overall, this is how I see this all “change the forsaken” thing.
If we would be talking about a single player game I would agree that the changes in the opinions and views of the forsaken could be a good and interesting turn of events. But it’s a multiplayer one, where a strong contrast and easy differentiation is the king.
Let’s say, player A wants to change the forsaken. And player B does not. I can say “no” to one of them.
If I say “no” to player A, what would be lost? Well, are there more pro-peace races in the game? We have taurens, who value peace a lot. Or blood elves, who would not mind a war if they have to, but otherwise would do something else. So if a player A wants to play a character with that mentality, even if the change of the forsaken is declined, that player would lose nothing, since options were and are there.
If I say “no” to player B, what will change? Well, there is no substitute for a fantasy of the forsaken in the horde, so by changing them, this entire archetype will be eradicated. Those who wanted it will no longer be able to play what they chose, that would be viewed like the devs pull the rug from under their feet.
While irl there could be one dominant culture killing out others, and that is a usual story, for a video game, preserving the variety, contrast, and recognizable traits would be a more desirable option. If the taurens would want to promote peace, it would be better if the game events would make them fail to convince others. If the forsaken are known for blaming of the alliance and borderline hostility to it, it would be better for a game to make their attempts to become different fail.
One could say, that changing the forsaken would be a textbook example of an attempt to fix something that works.
Thanks. Although my limited understanding of English prevents me from figuring out if this implies that the books were stored by Sylvanas somewhere in a secret place, or she just destroyed them permanently.
Btw, were there any quests with Voss getting books out of Scarlet Monastery? That could mean they might be also destroyed.
No worries, the story about the forsaken won’t really happen till the next expansion. So we have time to discuss everything, and tell the devs all the things we think about it
But why do they have to leave? We can have a diversity among the Forsaken without having them change sides. Every race has members with different opinions and approaches, that doesn’t mean they have to be split according to their methods and beliefs. I see it no different for the Forsaken.
If anything, it gives people more options on how they want to RP their characters, without a major lore change like LF Forsaken or switching the faction completely.
It depends. I have no idea what are the dev plans, so I can just guess.
So my guess is something like:
Imagine another war. What now? We have forsaken who would fight. And we could have forsaken, who could see how the horde attacks their own families, or whoever is dear to them? What would they do? Sabotage? Trying be stay between the fighting forces?
IMO when there are 2 opposing parts, there would be ither situation where one outright wins and leads the way, or the devs would not commit to one, and the players will see how the forsaken go back and forth from “the alliance is to blame for who we are” and “we must stop showing them that we are no better than the scourge”. Which is good when we have peace and time for debate, and is a strange thing when it’s time for action. Especially, if it’s time to mutually exclusive action.
Besides, that would be an easy way to explain why would the forsaken stay who they are. But all of it is just my opinion. Which is based on my mind seeing potential for great Calia-related stories, but they are all alliance-centric. So I am looking at this from a somewhat biased point of view.
There are other options, of course. Like, a sudden attack from Scarlet Crusade could lead to all “protect the living” crowd being killed. By I am not sure it is anything interesting in it.
Oh a flip side, imagine a drama of, say, undead woman, trying to see her living husband. A mix of hope, horror of what could happen after the fosaken attacks, seeing graves of deceased friends and family members, desire to show that you are no moster, and encountering prejucides, fear, hatred after all what happened between the two factions. And no way back to hide among other forsaken in Undercity.
IMO that is about as dramatic and “forsaken” story as one could tell. I am not sure if the devs can pull it off, though.
When I was talking about protectors of the living I was mostly referring to allies (the Horde living) and not the Alliance. Having Forsaken sympathize with the Alliance is something I would not want to see and it’s one of those Sylvanas moments that I agree with, even if in theory it makes sense that they would want to reunite with the families.
In the long run that would cause more issues than positives and I don’t see how they could write a coherent story if they went in that direction.
There’s small stories that can be told about certain Forsaken and their drama regarding their living relatives on the Alliance side, but it should not become a general thing among the Forsaken.
Well, time will tell how the devs see the fosaken. Can they stay as one group when there is no Sylvanas? How to portray duality of 2 sides of Lordaeron? Too unclear so far.
I agree, there should be an explanation in the future why will the anti-alliance identity of the forsaken remain. And hopefully it will remain. For sure there are other ways than what I was talking about. I just find that specific turn to be interesting so I highlight this possibility.
Yeah, I can’t see how to keep these 2 views in one group because of how mutually exclusive they are. And I do not even know if there are enough of the forsaken who even could bother with this ideas. Maybe it was just Thomas and a couple other members.
I just think that could be a wasted opportunity that could deepen whe fantasy of the forsaken. But I might be completely wrong and such stories are not something that would add anything interesting to the game.
But how do you even tell these stories, if they would not try to be with their relatives? After the recent war, how would regular people see the forsaken? I mean, even Calia likely would have a rough time, and she is literally raised by the light daughter of the founder of the alliance [edit: with support of Anduin and Jaina on top]. I mean, if such “noname” forsaken is not a part of the alliance, I am not sure how to tell a story like that. They would just be killed by a random alliance group who could lose someone in the recent events long before they could reach anyone.
You would have a Zelling kind of story with a most likely dramatic outcome. On one side you have the Forsaken who wants to reunite with his family and is considered a deserter by his former allies and a monster by the living and on the other side, the living family involved who are seen as traitors for sheltering the enemy within their home.
If by enforcing “faction identity” Blizzard wanted to widen the gap between factions then I think BFA succeeded. I don’t count the armistice and the butt kissing at the end of BFA for many reasons.
There is clear tension between the Alliance and the Horde at the moment, between major characters and the regular soldiers as well. Hell, there is tension between players that are really just passive in the entire war.
There’s no way you can have a faction like the Forsaken getting closer to the Alliance without completely destroying everything, including BFA lore.
But it totally makes sense for some Forsaken to have developed a closer relationship with the Horde, especially in the light of recent events. There’s plenty of Forsaken players who are anti Sylvanas and pro Horde atm, they should be heard too and their opinion should also be represented in game.
he feint death again and one bothered to check just like last time I’ll believe blightcaller is dead when we see him again in the maw as a ghost or something
True enough.
I like that they added that part though, it’s silly to write a character to be racist(speciest?), “just because”.
I’m not a fan of one dimensional characters, even though I tend to like the anti-heroes / villains more, there has to be some reasoning/ motives that are relatable, the tragic villains are usually the best characters, my opinion atleast.
My brother showed me a Youtube fanfilm about the Amani tribe a few days ago, really made me feel sorry for them.
Even if in game they are depicted as enemies and raidfodder, there was so much more to them.
But as for Garithos…his original depiction was just that, a one dimensional villain/ antagonist in Kael’thas’ story and the survival of the Blood Elves.
I still think the Sunwell patch ruined a good story, would have been far more interesting if they weren’t essentially back to square 1; “High Elf”.
Yes, Amani has much more for them and have much more to offer than Garithos ever did. Game constantly frames them as the evil guys when objectivelyall they do is trying to defend their home.
The game constantly frames them as the objectively evil guys because the game constantly writes them as the objectively evil guys.
Even Vol’jin went there to kill his fair share of Amani with his Siame-Quashi.
"Everybody try to keep de Amani Empire down. Now we got friends. We wit de Zandalari now. We part of something bigger. You can’t stop us all. De whole world gonna drown in blood!!"
Doesn’t exactly resonate as someone “who just wants to defend their home”.
Nasty villain bat, I prefer more nuance.
The vid showed them how they were in the beginning, I think every race has blood on their hands(and I prefer it that way).
Sadly, Blizz doesn’t seem to do much nuance, it’s either good or evil.
Though this isn’t quite a villain bat, it’s more of the opposite, a victim bat, a good guy bat? Mostly made up by the players.
Because the Amani from their inception were evil savages, they were written as villains when they were first introduced along with the First Horde, they were beastly and bloodthirsty.
Thrall himself recognises this when he kills them in Warcraft 3.
Vol’Jin acted retarded in Cata. Especially in stranglethorn. But the fact is that Amani wanted to get back their home.
And drowning world in blood was Keal’Thas quote after he summoned burning legion on that small island. Blood elves also wanted to kill off fleeing dranei, and did other nasty stuff.
So I’d say them getting proper response was a long due. To this day I am envious of Alliance during MoP period.
)
I’ll believe blightcaller is dead when we see him again in the maw as a ghost or something