New talents don't feel that good

Yes, but many, perhaps most players consider MoP as the best class design this game has seen.

This is subjective. I consider MoP classes to be more unique than what we have. MAny tools that were removed were quite unique to that class.

Where is:
Firestarter, Pyromaniac, Searing Touch?
Blazing Soul, Shimmer, Blast Wave?
Focus Magic. Rune of Power?

I’ll give you this though, the current talent trees suck, most of the above are passives.
The whole talent tree is almost full of passives.

Some? For sure.
Many? Maybe.
Most? Starting to get doubtful.

I take it you don’t have proof? Actual numbers?
If you don’t, you shouldn’t make such claims. Speak for yourself; then you’re going to be 100% accurate.

Exactly, and most of those were in MoP talent trees as well.

Do you? Please ask around. MoP had great class design.

Ye… Rune of Power was there, just checked here:
https://gotwarcraft.com/the-mists-of-pandaria-mage/#ability

For what? I’m not making any claims.

Some will say that, sure. Others will disagree.
I don’t have numbers, so I’m not claiming it’s true or false. Simply unknown.

The general sentiment is that MoP was great class design wise, you won´t see many that disagree with that. To each their own, but classes had more abilities and tools regardless which as my primary point.

Again; give me proof and I’ll believe you.
Who are these people you ask? Have you asked many people? Where? How?
These things matter. Simple word of mouth is not enough.

Sure, maybe they did overal. I’m fine with classes not being able to do everything. Because that homogenizes classes an awful lot and that’s not something I find appealing in an MMORPG. So yeah; each to their own.

Come on. I said the general sentiment. Do you have any proof of the opposite? No.

I have proven though that fire mage had more tools, much more control in MoP. I want that back.

Found one.

I don’t, but just because you say ‘yes’ doesn’t mean the factual answer is ‘yes’. Things don’t work like that.

Fair enough. As per my previous reply: I disagree.
Which is fine. We can agree to disagree. :slight_smile:

Found one, will look for more.

Please ask people who played moP what they thought. There haven´t been many polls, but from what I gather msot enjoyed MoP class design. Especially pvpers.

Alright. The problem with that one is: There were only 141 voters. Which is a tiny, tiny number. All of those voters belong to a minority of WoW players that visit website forums. So… A very small number of a tiny percentage of players voted on this. And it was 40% of them.

Do you really believe that such a thing accurately represents all WoW players?
Because I really don’t.

I commend you for trying to look for proof though.

Thank you. I can´t wish polls into existance you know. But that poll was done during Legion, yet people liked MoP class design much better, according to the poll. Despite Legion being considered a good expansion.

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Of course they did, if most classes could do everything. That’s a perfect PvP setup.
But not a very compelling RPG or PvE setup.

Maybe Blizzard should also change the PvP talent system to make it so that all classes get all the utility and tools, so that PvP is more balanced. Without it affecting the other part of the game. Maybe that’s a good solution?

Another more recent one:

Results:

Might be. Though not many complained that MoP classes were unfun in pve. Having utility in open world and instances is nice too.

From a min-max, meta viewpoint, they probably wouldn’t no.
But there’s more to an MMORPG than just that. In fact, I believe that meta shouldn’t be a thing in WoW, period, but I’ll admit that’s a pretty extreme viewpoint.

Anyway, I pretty much said what I wanted to say. I think giving all classes all the tools makes for a boring game where every class feels much too similar. I like diversity.