True.
True also.
True also.
Also true.
Well, I can spoil that for you: They won’t be. In fact, you won’t see any of those things because this is not the way Blizzard is building talent trees.
You are just going to pick the parts of the current class design you like and then the talents you like- While, of course, following the path Blizzard wants you to follow by making those choices so much better than the others.
Living in denial? The current Borrowed power isn’t a part of the class.
When this expac is over and we’re going into DF, you’re losing Covenant abilities, conduits, tier, legos.
You counting them as “having” them is ridiculous. They’re namely called borrowed powers for that reason.
Whatever Blizz decided to give you in the new trees is the baseline.
What you have now without borrowed power is your baseline.
No, but it should be. It should have been the past 8 years, and you can’t use it as a “AHA, this is a new addition to the class” in an argument without also allowing it to be used vice versa against the said argument.
Thank god, most of them are so degenerate in design I’m glad to be rid of them. Of course, the good bits should stay, as they did going from Vanilla to MoP.
Unlike these days, they actually just added to classes instead of taking them away and then adding them back in.
I do have them because I remember them, and they should be part of my class or options in it some way or another. It’s not my fault Blizzard’s dug this grave for themselves, but it proves the argument right all the same.
Yeah and just like baseline stuff now, you have no choice in choosing them in a system that is supposed to facilitate that choice, thanks for clarifying that for everyone reading this.
You didn’t know what borrowed power means? 
No, I know perfectly well what it means. I’m just not letting you, or Blizzard, use it as a gotcha at the players as “Ahh look at all these things we are giving you!” when in truth they have been and indeed many of them should be part of our classes.
Just to be clear, the power that was borrowed, was in fact borrowed for this expac and would be gone in the next one.
In case there is still trouble to what borrowed means, you can look here: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/borrowed
Maybe it will clue you in to what borrowed power means.
You really seem to be struggling with reading the points in what me and others are saying.
I am well aware of what borrowed power is.
I am well aware of how Blizzard has used it the past 8 years and 3 expansions.
I am well aware of what was their intention with it.
But I am also aware what it has in practice done to this game and the way devs treat the playerbase- So, I’m not going to let you nor the devs out of this hook.
Them giving us back abilities and passives that used to be part of our classes is not giving us new things or more things. They are not giving us new choices or new abilities or new opportunities.
They are returning us what we have had before, and should have had to this date. And that’s all it is.
I won’t mind if they recycle some Azerite Traits, Conduits, Essenses or Artifact / Legendary powers. Some of them were fun. I liked that Azerite Trait that make Ghost Wolf heal you, so get in trouble pop Ghost Wolf and you heal while running away. Not sure if they’d make it a talent or not but there are others that would work as talents surely.
I rather see them given back this way than just removed for good.
No reason to be ashamed, you were just not aware that that borrowed power, would be leaving us at the end of the expac.
Well now you know.
And we’re not getting any new borrow power, therefore leaving the talent system as not enough.
You seeing it’s factual doesn’t make it factual. It’s pathetic.
Pretty sure that gaining so many talent points and extras doesn’t leave you with “not enough”.
Sure. But they are not new things, or things that add to your class. They are things you used to have, but no longer do.
since this thread i about the talent trees themselves- I won’t get to this example a lot, but one of the most major issues the current dev team does is that they design things like this example you have.
Ghost wolf becomes not only a mobility cooldown, a damage mitigation tool, but also a self sustain tool. That is way too many things the ability is capable of or should be capable of, and this is not just with that ability.
There are a ton of abilities like that, even now, across the game that have the same problem. They do way too much, they do way too much vs their cost, or have no counterplay to them.
But, back to the talents.
I have been stating that I am aware of what borrowed power is since the start of this conversation.
And I am using it, very successfully too, to point out that your examples are wrong and false and that as the talent trees currently stand, the are objectively worse.
You’re free to continue trying to prove us wrong, but just like you can’t keep your own word, you can’t sway others either.
They do.
In fact, when you did your comparisons, you purposely chose to ignore to compare it with borrowed power as well. That’s quite telling as well. Otherwise you’d throw it in.
I don’t gain anything of it, as I already had that. It’s just the stuff you didn’t mention, like covenant legendary, the other legendary and bunch of other passives and conduits, that I lose that you ignore.
Saying “you gained this” while I had that before and lost bunch of other stuff is like if the thief is telling you, that he didn’t really rob you, because you gained a bit of money off of that. Of course, he’d be refering to hanful of money he’d choose not to steal, while going away with most of your money.
I’m sure Whisperer if he posts the same copy pastes of his work 10 more times we and everybody else in this thread will just magically change their mind and instantly agree with him.
Feel free to continue thinking that wrongly.
Borrowed power is not part of the baseline classes.
What’s in the DF talent trees is part of what you can chose for your baseline.
Do you need a link to what borrowed means too?
Here, i’ll give it again for you too:
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/borrowed
One day, you’ll both learn what borrowed means.
As opposed to you to crying about not getting enough? You didn’t do any work to show why you’re complaining.
Go on, cry more.
I never said it is.
I said there was borrowed power, that was the class for Shadowlands.
And in Dragonflight, there is no borrowed power, and the classes FEEL bad, as you fail to attain what you had before and gain nothing new.
And you sneakily saying “well you should’ve lost borrowed power, but instead, you lose only part of it, so actually you gained abilities” is quite idiotic.
At this point I am convinced even you must know how bad that argument is.
Well, seeing as I’ve been able to prove you wrong continuously after 400 or so posts in this thread, yeah. I think I will keep thinking that way.
I did though, I proved that the talent trees are a scam and that the choices that are supposed to be there actually aren’t.
You’re free to disagree all you want but that’s how it’ll remain anyway.
Lmao, imagine not even being able to click on the new trees to see what you’re gaining.
You mean, not prove anything? You keep saying that you can’t change your build, when you in fact can.
It’s just 1-2-31 clicks away.
Talent trees are a “scam” guys… go home, don’t click on them.
What a joke, to make such an accusation. 
Yeah you can, but even you magically seem to be picking the same way every single time re: the class tree. Somehow. It’s a mystery really, all of us just end up picking the same rows and paths!
Word, on word, they are. They claim to be what they are not, and claim to be capable of things they are not.
https://mythictrap.com/dragonflights-talents?c254=nnr785_a087is_8mfpw&c250=nnyy35_nosscw_28
https://mythictrap.com/dragonflights-talents?c254=nodp3p_jf80sl_2gqp&c250=no702h_5u5moq_5
Wow… the exact same!