Yeah you can pick them up.
Not all of them though. Unless you’re cool losing out on damage increasing passives.
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So extras? You’re not losing stuff from live then.
Also, the talents won’t remain where they are now most likely, they’ll shuffle around.
I am. Because I don’t feel the majority of these passives. I’m clicking them because the sim will tell me to if I want semi-optimal dps.
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What are you losing from live then?
You’re giving up utility such as Death’s Advance for Rune Mastery for example.
That’s presuming Rune Mastery will remain where it is.
Or you can forgo Wraith Walk and 3% avoidance to get Death’s Echo and Death’s Advance… that way you have double Death’s Advance.
Once someone figures out an optimal build I’ll show you. But the builds I’ve made so far make it seem like I’m losing a good 3-4 abilities and I’d rather just stick with MoP talents.
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Link a build here and tell me what your live talent tree is.
The biggest issue i see is grabbing one of the current 40 row, what with grabbing the DPS talents.
They’ll need to shuffle the DK Class tree a bit so that the dps talents can be put against each other, but not against utility.
But you’re trading off so far.
The talent trees are just recycled talents and passives , like it has been practice for Blizzard for years now
I would rather keep my baseline kit and talents as they are now and they added new interactions for those , like i could get a slider that changed my frostbolt or mortal strike to hitting 2 or more targets , my vendetta changes to boost my bleed dmg more , stuff like that , ohhh i forget , we had that before it was called glyphs , the expansion after DF i can almost see the new and exiciting updated glyph system…
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There is no need to look into details of the talent calculator.
Those are just minor details. And the real problem is the big picture and general direction of the design.
When we see the tree shape talent comes back, we know it is a failure. It will fail exactly the same way it failed before. 100%, guaranteed.
It is an unnecessarily complicated and extremely unfriendly system. Nobody wants to spend tons of time doing research, just to set up the talents for all their alts and every spec. People will just copy and paste from the guides on wowhead or icyvein.
Because of the nature of the tree shape, the guides on talent can be 10 times longer. Who wants to spend time to read that? At least the current talent system is simple and short.
There is no need to put your hope up, because you will be disappointed.
I’ll try to explain in to you so even a very stupid person can comprehend.
Hopefully you too.
Current “baseline” design of classes is built around classes HAVING borrowed powers.
That’s how the design is since Legion.
Dragonflight design of classes is built around NOT HAVING borrowed powers.
Therefore it doesn’t make sense to compare Shadowlands design without borrowed powers to Dragonflight design without borrowed powers, as in Dragonflight it’s end product, while in Shadowlands, the baseline design may be bad, but borrowed power may lift it.
There’s no borrowed powers lifting it in Dragonflight.
So if you want to compare how the class feels, you compare it with all it’s things that go into that and that makes the class what it is. In Shadowlands it’s conduits, legendaries, talents, baseline spells…
in Dragonflight it’s very few baseline spells and talents.
And the end result is having less abilities in Shadowlands.
If this talent tree is supposed to replace borrowed power and be sufficient, it can’t leave you just with having less than you had previous expansion.
Who do you think will find it fun to have “worse” version of their Shadowlands character?
There’s extremely low if any hard-to-find and not-mattering new spells, so you still play with what you had before, you just pick less of it. And mostly you can’t pick it, because you had to pick some mandatory talent somewhere else that gives you flat % power increase which is boring af.
Do you maybe understand now?
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Seeing as I have been correct all the other times too, why wouldn’t I be right about this one?
What indication is there that the opposite is true?
Ok, what reasons have they given us to not be cynical? And you are absolutely right, I am cynical toward these devs who have, on a number of occasions:
a) Said they will do x thing, but then do the opposite.
b) Say they know what the players want, but when it all goes to hell, they reluctantly (toward the end of an expansion) give in.
c) Haven’t apologized once (0/0) for their past behaviour.
There’s a reason so many people have left the game- Because if you are not gonna listen to your playerbase’s demands, the least you can be is competent at your job. But, since they aren’t and treat the players with contempt, why should we treat them any different?
I’ve no trouble doing that, I’m just responding to what you write.
I am unhappy with the current situation, that is why I am advocating it to be worked out. Water’s wet, etc. Slowly, we have managed to shove the game toward the direction it needs to go.
I would obviously prefer if Blizzard took 3 steps forward and not 2 back every time it did something right, but if this is how the feedback process needs to be to get the results, then fine. I’ll do just that.
I agree. Blizzard’s a multibillion dollar business, and I can and should demand quality work from them, not bottom of the barrel scraps and work I’d expect off of a small indie company, not them.
I don’t follow? If you have a thousand customers who want the same thing vs 100 customers who want the same thing, which one do you think the company will on the long term follow?
I didn’t take it out of context, because the rest of your post doesn’t matter. You either follow the meta, or you don’t. There isn’t shades of gray, it’s very straight forward. And for someone who scrutinizes people for that, as I said, you seem rather alike and don’t seem to like when I point it out.
Again, you said those things.
Well if I’m lying then people are more than free to read my posts and see that for themselves. And in fact since I am replying in this thread, I would argue they know my “true nature” (whatever that is) well by now.
But instead I am not lying and I am just using your own words against you.
You seem rather obsessed with people being angry, salty, or whatever other run of the mill adjective you want to use to describe them- And yet, I’ve been able to describe your posts without describing you with any other adjectives other than being wrong (objectively), and being also free to make stupid choices. If I were to guess, it sounds a bit like you’re projecting on me.
But, anyway, I’m more interested in hearing why do you feel the need to point out that your opinion and my opinion are just opinions? What does it matter for the conversation? Because in order to have a discussion, you have to omit some objectivity to the discussed viewpoints, else why even discuss them if our opinions just exist in void and do not matter in the context of the discussion?
Then why is it that at every Expansion’s reveal, even SL’s, the first three panels always involved what new abilities or talents we’re getting?
I’m asking you to answer, I’m not asking for your opinion. If Abilities aren’t such an important part of the game (i would even go as far as to say they are one of the core elements of WoW), why would the company use them to hype up expansions consistently since burning crusade?
I can design an entire class toolkit in under a week for a class- I’d certainly hope a professional game designer would be able to do that under half that time. Things are not in “early days”, the devs are just clueless, incompetent and lazy. That’s all.
So you keep telling, but you always come back!
For someone who keeps telling me repeatedly that they do not care for my view and has decided that I must be like X kind of person, you sure do seem to spend a whole lot of time responding to me, no?
See you again I guess.
Nah, because he will refuse to admit being wrong and, like some other posters in this thread, will just defend change for change’s sake.
But I mean, at the end of the day.
These are the people whose literal selling point for this expansion is that you can make bad choices.
These are the people who on one hand say that you won’t be losing any abilities, but in the next sentence say that if you lose some abilities it makes for an interesting choice (it doesn’t).
These are the same people who say the talent trees give you a great amount of choice in how you play, yet consistently pick the exact same base paths in their trees.
And that’s what I hope people will be able to see from this discussion. It’s all talk the talk, but they for sure won’t walk the walk.
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You’re losing all that borrowed power any way you slice it.
What the new talent trees in DF show, that’s your new baseline.
When we leave for DF, you have no more borrowed power active, it doesn’t matter what the new trees look like. You’re losing all covenants abilities, soulbinds, conduits, legos and tier.
You counting borrowed power as your own is your mistake.
Ok great, you admitted that our classes are fundamentally less than they are for example in SL.
Thanks, only took you 500+ posts lmao.
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Yes, but the idea of Dragonflight is to NOT introduce borrowed powers.
So the talent trees are not sufficient for class design WITHOUT borrowed powers.
The end.
You still don’t get it do you? You’d be losing that borrowed power, no matter how the DF trees looked like.
You should be grateful you have some of the abilities back to chose from.
Did you play any of the DF classes with the new talent trees? To see how they feel?
Did you make a build and see what extra abilities you have and what you lose?
Take note that most of your borrowed power is passives too.
You can take back your covenants ability or abilities, or tier, or legos.
Because you’re re-building your character.
When is it enough?
You greedy af?
How many points did you want?
60 per tree? You wanted all?
You still don’t get it don’t ya?
it’s not that we need to pick FAKE choices like interupt for example
but the real problem is that
this talents are just COPY paste of what we know
I didn’t want that i didn’t ask for that
i’m advocating for a BIG change rework with a better talents that will let you choose the way you play
meaning?
take enhancemen shaman for example
Why not make the talents let you specialize in elements you fight with?
why is there not a build for FIRE? where you ignite enemies with your weapons and spells
why is there no build where you can use frost spells and you shatter them and you have a higher critical chance for example
Why not use EARTH? yadayadayda
we can do that for almost every spec
instead we going the same idiotic ROUTE as always
oh? improved barkskin 2sec more
what a CREATIVITY GOD DAMnnnnN
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WHY IS THERE NOT DRAGONS SWOOPING DOWN FROM THE HEAVENS WHEN AN ENHANCEMENT SHAMAN BREATHES???
Who tf cares? Go and build your private server and do wtf you want.
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Yes, just for you, I purposely removed from action bar all abilities I will lose. It felt horrible.
Oh really? What did you remove?
What build did you make? Link it here.
What talent spread you had on live too.
Don’t worry, I’m going to make a video and link it here.
you are talking about complete change to the core wow gameplay. world of warcraft is made with the ability for player to talents to play with the build of choice.
it was with the trees and same with the rows for every class.
somethings, like with wow ttalents, less is more.
the game NEVER allowed you to have everything. and neither the new trees. there was always X or Y. there were always limited amount of points. and the powerful stuff were always deeper. in order to get a more powerful spell or enhancement to a certain spell, you always needed to sacrifice other talents that might increase your dps with something else.
no they didnt.
those that were used might be considered by you as “wacky”, but they were well-known builds, for example, warlock can act ad a tank in certain situation with a specific build.
this isnt “wacky”, its an existing build.
but for example demo-destruction warlock back in tbc and wotlk was pretty low on the dps chart. if you put demo-destro vs pure destro in wotlk, you would see a ridiculous difference in power.