You don’t want to spend points on healing abilities, while losing out on dps in PvP, yes.
Yes, you sacrifice all utility you previously had baseline for dps.
I’m just saying it’s not fun.
I already told you like 3 times.
I don’t know why every time, there is some obvious issue, like covenants being locked, or conduit energy, there are people trying to undermine the feedback, just so we have to wait half a year or more until it gets fixed, when the issues were obvious from start.
You’re going to if the tradeoff is worth it.
LIST, make a list of what you’re losing and what you’re getting, i see you crying but nothing of substance is coming out.
Stay focused on this topic, so far you’re sounding entitled to utility while gaining extra dps talents for free.
Yes, and fun is not worth over dps increase, so you have to choose to lose fun for output resulting in game being less fun.
I don’t know what’s so hard for you to comprehend with it and you’re getting off track.
Fun is having more abilities that do dmg too.
I’m still waiting for that list of what the hell you’re losing and what you’re gaining.
Why?
Druids have so much baseline utility right now it’s hilarious, they don’t need it all at the same time.
Barkskin is already confirmed to be baseline in dragonflight, the talent is for improved barkskin.
Frenzied regen is only baseline for guardian and will be automatically picked when you go guardian now aswell.
If you want remove corruption then just pick it.
stampeding roar seems to be no issue picking in the current tree.
Why are you expecting that druids who will already get a lot more baseline than dk for example to get even more baseline utility?
And were you expecting us to go into dragonflight with everything we have now and then get 60 talent points to spend for even more power and utility?
The talent tree is about giving us options, you are gonna need to trade away some current abilities to gain new ones.
And there is only so many talents you can get for a given specc to increase dps, I just played around with the talent calculator and was able to pick all the dps increases for balance and still pick a few utility ones.
“get” is disingenuous
the word you are looking for is “keep”
I don’t expect them to keep utility but I hope they do, because utility is fun… same for DK, I don’t want DK to lose utility either
The issue is you cannot just pick it, but you have to waste a large amount of points to get there.
I don’t consider “choose what gets prunned” as fun option. That’s my feedback.
Fair enough.
It’s two points from the top before you can choose it? Those two points are also healing abilities, hardly a waste.
So you are not able to regain those things that you lose with the new talent build?
What spec are you playing?
The first part of your post is a terrible deja-vu though.
Covenants aren’t finished, it’s just alpha, give them a chance.
I think at this point the devs should be giving us chances.
I think the trees are disappointing. I think we are not really gaining anything from them and the current system has more choices you want to make.
Utility and base spells being locked in the tree doesn’t feel good, and i think it’s time the devs give us a chance and listen.
They are. They have listened to us.
I was actually one of the people begging Talent Trees to come back.
Can you share your wisdom a bit more clearly?
What exactly is so bad with the new trees?
Please provide some examples of the talents that look particularly bad?
How would you fix these trees, had you the power to do so?
Are you opposed to Talent Tree in general or just with this implementation?
Do you prefer the borrowed power structures we’ve had since Legion?
In principle Talent Trees should offer more choise for varying playstyles by focusing on different aspects of a class. Or to build unusual hybrid set ups.
In practice it comes down to implementation.
With that early pre-alpha build, sure… There isn’t much new stuff.
But it depends a bit how you look at it.
I love seeing some old stuff return and having the opportunity to play with that again.
I love being able to choose which actives I want on my skillbar.
Sure that might not be ‘new’, but it’s new in that I can have a new gaming experience - or one that more resembles an old experience which maybe I really loved back in the day.
I will say; I don’t care about druids or DKs, and I’m not familiar enough with their skills to ‘see the bigger picture’. I’ll have to wait for the hunter trees to be made public before I can reach a more informed opinion.
We’d be losing all Covenant abilities, Conduits / Soulbinds and Legendaries in any case. All those powers were borrowed only for Shadowlands.
In any case do you really need every ability in every situation?
Making decisions about which powers you wish to use is a standard feature of RPGs. With this new Talent Tree system we will be able to save different builds and swap between them. This is about as friendly a power selection system as there has ever been in an RPG. Short of just giving us all powers all the time (no talents, tier sets, legendaries or anything else power related outside of the spell book) this is as good as it gets.
OK, here (at last) is an example of something that is bad. Talent Trees should be about choice. If it’s just a matter of filling in boxes for the sake of filling in boxes. If it’s not a choice it should just be baked into the spec.
We should be giving feedback about the bad things, not simply spamming threads called “Talent Trees look bad”. Specific constructive criticism can help steer the development of the feature.
It depends on how it’s done.
If you have to pick a talent on row 1 that is on the path to a talent you do want on row 3 then this is reasonable.
Having to put 1 point in every talent on row 1 is not reasonable. Just bake those in if we have to put points in them.
But we’re also losing baseline abilities.
No, that’s what make it fun, for example I use Soothe as Druid in absolutely minimum situations. But it’s fun and sort-of skillful to have it for those minimal situations and it’s always good to know some in depth mechanics and use them to your advantage, that’s generally what makes game fun. But would it be worth talent? Absolutely not. The funds end when you have to spend talents for niche abilities.
Stuff like interrupt for DPS isn’t really a choice.
I did. Read bit more than just title.
I do think the argument that an Inteurupt is a core mechanic has merit. Although there is also the argument that when every class / spec has every ability there is a loss of individuality.
I don’t pvp or raid, or do dungeons so I rarely use interrupts. Some rares / elites do need them though. But I’d probably live fine without one 99.9% of the time.
Saying that I always thought it odd that Paladins’ CC was a Talent (Repentance or something - been a while). Back in TBC when I ran dungeons with my small friends and family guild I remember it being annoying that our paladin didn’t have a CC.
You know what’s loss of individiuality even more?
When you have to choose between dps and utility.
I seem to remember in an interview they said we wouldn’t have to do so. One tree is more utiliy based and the other more throughput based.
Not sure if they’ve gone awry on this direction though.
You literally have bunch of dps abilities in the “Druid” talents.
Like Rake & Rip, Swipe…
As well as many dps-increasing passives.
Similarly, having to choose between aoe and single target dps, when other classes don’t have to.