must we do this song and dance routine every expansion
if it looks like a turd … smells like a turd then its most likely a turd …
Bruh! it’s only Alpha
Bruh! It’s only Beta
Bruh! it’s only Pre-patch
Bruh! What the heck blizzard
every darn time
3 Likes
And what are you gonna choose instead as a feral druid? Starfire, Starsurge and Moonkin form? Unless you’re aiming for some weird hybrid build which by definition means you might skip some feral talents, then of course your goal is to fill the feral part of the tree. Those are there to give non ferals the option to go for them.
You do not have to go back to the main hub to swap your loadout so it’s already good in my book
But it’s just looking to be the same as it was back then, pick the cookie cutter build and deviate slightly depending on the fight
Idk why people wanted this back but i can live with it
I like them
1 Like
I would remove all baseline and utility from these trees
Talents should enhance your spells a little bit
So imagine that you are balance druid or whatever class and instead of picking a boring interupt because someone at blizzard thinks it’s a CHOICE
you gonna have talents like in last row for balance druid there is a good example how talents should look
every 30tick of your moonfire full moon will drop down
that is a interesting gameplay changer
and that’s how all talents in the tree should look so you can mix and match and create interesting builds.
I perosnally don’t care about numbers and all that
i really want to play a FUN game like it was back then
when blizzard didn’t care if the spell for example symbiosis was OP as hell
It was FUN to use it because it gave you something that you can’t have normaly.
that’s how the game should be designed
this what they are doing is like adjusting the talent tree for an E-SPORT
they can’t go outside of that and be creative and crazy because they will mess up the balance between classes and break MDI or ARENA tournament
Blizzard should just give you tools to do what you want.
instead they are taking away what you have and puting that into tree
so you will pick it up again
so in the end this trees are nothing new
it’s your spellbook being gutted to force you pick the same spells again
instead of having new toys to play with.
If you look closely there is no new spell on that tree
WHY?
just give me 10.3 or 4 patch and they fixed all problems we suggested years before.
the dev gamefix loop cycle continues. They have a chance this time. maybe the last one for a lot of people to do it right. What they showed us atm wasn’t that appealing.
No tank spec for new race, race looks bad, talent system is just a new way to take something away since bfa. Some say after mop/wod.
What they told us in the interviews were mostly marketing bla bla
This really shows how badly designed they’re if you’re apologizing it by saying “you’re expected to pick these talents”.
You shouldn’t be expected to pick any, you should have a free choice.
And IF I fill just the “Feral side” of the tree, so I don’t lose on main baseline DPS abilities as well as DPS passives (which both feels super-bad to pick as you have them in both trees and are super-mandatory and super-boring), THEN I miss multiple stuff that I had baseline in Shadowlands like Cyclone, Hibernate, Soothe, and Remove Corruption…
So basically the “fun toolkit”.
And Feral is then reduced to just doing damage.
Unfortunately yes, since at least now, most of the stuff in talents are boring passive dmg / healing increases and baseline abilities from SL. Even the “Class ones” which allegedly shouldn’t be much tied to damage. Yet they’re and thus they force you in certain direction in the tree locking you away from choosing talents you might want to have.
And statements from Blizzard like “you’re going to have so many talent points, so it’s fine if we put interrupt in there” is disingenuous, if you have to spend multiple other talent points to get there.
1 Like
You’re getting other stuff by going there, you’re not “wasting” points. You’re spending them to build your character.
You have free choice where to spend them.
When you level instead of unlocking something automatically every few levels and chosing a talent every 5 or 10 levels, you’re getting points to spend in the tree where you want them to be spent.
There are so many points to spend how you want…
The stuff you didn’t choose.
Essentialy meaning it overloads one choice.
Instead of making multiple smaller ones.
Fun fact: this issue DID NOT exist in past talent trees (Classic-Cata), because most of them were disconnected.
Vast majority of issues come from the pathing.
The rest of the issue is from boringness of passive damage increases and prunning.
Not really, if I want to keep Cyclone and Remove Corruption (basic utility), I already commited to multiple talents, equivallent to 2 rows in current talent trees. Imagine if you just lost those abilities and they were put into talent rows we have now, competing against I don’t know - Sabertooth & Predator. That’s horrible.
1 Like
It’s a talent tree for goodness sake, not a talent discontinued line where you can shop your talents.
You can’t cherry pick the best talents and that’s it, you have to take into consideration pathing when going for something, it’s part of the choice.
I’m going to ask you what i asked everyone else, make a build here: https://mythictrap.com/dragonflights-talents
Give your current live talent spread, what you’re picking out of each of the 7 rows, make it simple: 1 2 3 2 3 1 1… whatever you have.
After that it’s simple, you compare what you lost from live, versus what you gained.
That’s how you find out the value of what you lost versus what you actually gained.
You have 31 points, you’re putting 3 into Rejuvenation, Swiftmend and Remove Corruption, 3 into 6% more healing basically and 1 into Cyclone, you’ve spent 23% of you points or so and got 4 abilities and a passive.
If they didn’t put those into the talent tree and just left them baseline, you’d be getting less points and the tree would be shorter. You’d end up in the same place, except that it’s worse.
This way you at least have a choice to put them somewhere else.
Except that’s not what’s happening, they’re against other stuff yes, but mostly other utility, there are enough points for you to spend and pick what you want/need.
2 Likes
They are doing that, but with a few limitations.
But it’s a lot more free than current talents.
Yes, before blizzard choose what abilities and upgrades you got.
Now they are unlearning those, adding more and then let you pick which abilities and upgrades you want to to play with.
While there aren’t much “New” we are getting back old options.
We have abilities and upgrades that we lost previously from Artifacts, Azerite and we get to keep some from our covenants. We are also seeing legendary and tier set effects being added as talents.
This for example is an anima power in torghast.
While something new would have been fun, getting back some of the most fun abilities and upgrades from the old and current systems and items are just as welcome in my opinion.
Completely new stuff is probably not gonna come until the expansion after Dragonflight.
Changes can and will be made to the trees we see now. We can even see it has changed already from the one they showed at the expansion reveal.
To me it doesn’t matter if the baseline abilities for our specs are in the tree or if we are given weaker versions of them and replace them in the tree with upgrades for them.
The druid class tree have all these basic abilities there because druids are THE hybrid class.
In the current talents they have the Affinity talents at level 30 where they choose which of the other specs they want abilities from, then learn a passive bonus, baseline abilities and a utility ability. At lv35 you can choose an ability (heart of the wild) that boost that affinity so you can pretty much for 45 seconds perform another role.
In the preview class tree Heart of the Wild is in the middle of the bottom row and is very easy to get.
So while it might seem like a waste to put points in healing or balance spells as feral.
It can be very handy in some encounters, like helping with healing on Sun King’s Salvation or during the dance of The council of blood.
And encounters like Hungering Destroyer where you need to be out of melee range for a while you can just go boomy and keep damaging the boss.
Or doing some arena and they start whittling down your healer, luckily for 45 sec you are now a healer too. Great success 
Personally I think we are off to a great start.
I hope we get more previews soon.
1 Like
You trolling but whatever 
How am I trolling? Why would I take my time to write all that if I’m trolling?
I was expecting some sort of argument or agreement but I guess your comment was rather about venting than caring about the topic, so whatever.
Because everything what you said was completely dumb
Example
Example
Example
Why not just stop talking and let us who actualy know what made this game FUN fix it for you with our feedback?
your time is over friend you and people like you are responsible for BFA and this garbage called shadowlands
their feedback and all that was exactly like your wall of empty text.
Please tell us all exactly how am I going to enjoy the design of the game more when I have more choice but get less? In what world is that a gain?
In what instance where previously I had all my utility will I think to myself “boy i sure am glad I couldnt pick both of these options that I need in this case, i feel like I needed to make an important choice here!!!”.
Yeah. That never happens.
We spent the last god damn three trash expansions trying to get our baseline abilities back, and now that they are finally back, they take them away and put them behind talent trees.
Jfc.
Ok, fine. If you prefer false choices, then you cant be helped. But I rise you this point:
What if Blizzard actually instead offered the talent choices in the following way: Talent choices now have different paths as they currently do, but instead of bwing filled with passives and abilities baseline to our classes, they would actually let you customize HOW your class or spec plays?
I’ll use UH dk as an example since that is already available.
Instead of offering baseline abilities, talents and azerite powers as “choices”, they actually split the UH dk talent tree in two that converge somewhere in the middle. The two paths would be the following:
Left side focuses on making your pets a bigger part of your damage
Right side focuses on making your diseases and spells more powerful
Hell, you could have an option down that talent tree that completely removes your reliance on bursting festering wounds, and gives you something else.
Now, that by definition would be a choice. Because you are actually choosing how you deal damage, and both of them have advantages and disadvantages. You could also try and fill both of the paths, but then you don’t get access to any strong abilities at the bottom.
These talent trees have none of that creativity. They have 0 (0/0) new abilities save for a couple of ones stolen from legendaries, azerite armor bonuses and passives.
You don’t even need to answer why they dont do this, because I know the reason. Doing that kind of choice is hard. Its really hard to get it right.
So instead the devs do this. They offer us falsw choices, a different wardrobe with the same old choices as before, so they can focus on changes nobody (0/0) asked for like dragon riding. Because that stuff is easy work, you dont actually have to struggle with valancing abilities and defining what a class should and should not be capable of.
If anything, the new talent trees is Blizzard outsourcing the design of our classes to us because they have been unable to do it for the past 8 years themselves. Useless, talentless devs are the problem.
2 Likes
How is it dumb to expect that we dont get new stuff in their new “evergreen” talent system they are developing when we have three expansions worth of abilities and effects that were or would be taken away from us that has already been tested for years?
One of your examples of a good talent is an anima power that we currently can only access in torghast but will soon be a talent for us to play with instead.
So why waste time and resources on creating new spells for all classes when they have loads of them that was used for one expansion and then removed.
Like Symbiosis that was another example of yours, would be perfect to bring back.
And yeah, I am fine with having currently baseline utility and be moved to the tree along with more options.
I was never under the illusion that we would get to keep everything we currently have and then get 60 talent points to spend on new abilities and modifiers because that would be insane.
That would be like having artifacts, azerite and covenants at the same time.
While fun for a while to have all those powers, it ruins the games balance.
Your feedback is just that you want all new stuff. You want to keep all your current abilities and utility and gain more ontop.
This is why they started with all these systems in the first place.
They couldnt keep adding on new stuff every expansion on top of what we already had.
So we got a bunch of new things and at the end it got ripped away from us so we could gain other new stuff.
I hated the borrowed systems and their grinds, I used to play a lot of alts in previous expansions but when legion came I stopped doing that. I always preferred the old talent trees.
I rather have them play it safe with the new talent system to see how it plays out than crazy as you want were they will have to revamp the whole system again after Dragonflight because it turned into a mess and then we are back to the habit of giving stuff and removing it again each expansion.
This is supposed to be a system that lasts and grows over several expansions.
2 Likes
Can someone please explain to me how on one hand do I have free choice to pick and choose what I want but at the same time Blizzard expects me to pick some talents and abilities anyway.
If blizzard expects me to pick those talents, then they should be baseline. That is as simple as it is. A harsh truth, because if you go by that logic, about 80% of these talent trees would be empty.
Those things are completely and utterly opposed to one another. You either have freedom of choice, or you have a false choice. There are no nuances or shades of gray, its that simple.
Please tell me how will I ever feel more rewarded about having my mind soothe that I got back after MoP finally, an ability i barely use but when I do it is mega impactful, locked behind a talent choice that I will 100% never waste a talent point on. Please explain to me how a niche, baseline ability like this going on a talent row will enhance my gameplay.
2 Likes
How are you getting less??
Show me one tree you made, link it here, tell me your talent setup in live and then tell me exactly what you’re losing from live with the new trees.
NOT BLOODY ONE OF YOU DID THAT, NOT ONE.
Tell me wth you’re losing and tell me what you’re gaining.
We do a cut off and see if it’s worth it or not.
It’s called having a talent tree and choosing your utility and general abilities.
You also get to have stuff from other specs if you want/need to.
It’s more than you have on live.
So bottom line:
- MAKE A TREE AND LINK IT HERE, TELL ME YOUR LIVE SPEC TALENTS
- TELL ME WTH YOU LOSE FROM YOUR LIVE SPEC
- TELL ME WHAT YOU GAIN FROM LIVE
P.S. Covenant abilities and everything that’s not baseline in this expac was expected to go away, anything you’re seeing in the new trees is EXTRA and A GAIN.
Reminder than not one of you that whine about the new trees did the above.
Why? Because you’d show little you lose and how much you gain when compared to live.
Blizzard expects you to play the game, you’re free to do talents how you want and created a “bad” spec. Blizzard said this themselves.
So take some bloody responsibility and make your own damned choices and deal with the consequences.
2 Likes
I can understand that argument when it comes to for example frost dk, You have to pick frost strike, obliterate and howling blast. Not just because it’s the main abilities but its also due to the nature of the trees design at the top.
I would have no issue if the baseline versions of these three abilities were given when you pick your spec. Currently it seems like when you pick spec you dont learn any new ability like before, instead you have baseline abilities so you can level up to 10 and then you start replacing them.
If these basic spec abilities are in the tree or given baseline and the replacement in the tree is just buffs to these doesn’t matter to me a huge deal.
However the design at the top does bug me a little.
As of now you have to pick the three first talents for frost, so it could be argued any talents placed there should then be baseline.
Other specs we have on preview can how ever skip one of the three and still get past the 8 point mark.
For example blood can do this.
You can go all out on the right side of the tree and skip marrowrend.
At first i thought this was an oversight since marrowrend gives bone shield and you need that further down the tree on the right side.
But the talent for death’s caress states it also generates 2 bone shield so it is possible to skip marrowrend if you want.
But I would also like to see more branching out for more possible builds and specialisations to be created like you mentioned earlier.
As for the Class/utility tree I am pretty much happy. Utility should be a choice.
It is not something that is required to play, as can be seen by a lot of dps players in dungeons. But it can be very powerful when used right. So choosing utility based on the activity you are doing is not bad, especially when you can swap so easily.
You don’t need soothe just in case you at some point encounter an enemy with an enrage effect. Pick it when you are doing content where it can be needed and pick something else when its not.
It’s the first iteration, they will change placement of some abilities.
On the first iteration is where they throw stuff together to form a tree, after which they’ll see how they relate to each other in detail and possibly separate what they think we shouldn’t have at the same time due to the combo being unbalanced.
The feedback of placement of the abilities is absolutely valid.
2 Likes