New talents don't feel that good

Community General Discussion
101

Answer my question. In the meanwhile, I will answer yours.

This is the blood death knight spec talent tree, mapped by one of the players. He has marked all the things that are currently baseline, talents etc with different colors. Here they are:

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/411652431848538134/982942973765484644/unknown.png

Now, going by the spec talent tree on blood, I discovered that in order to get all the stuff you have now baseline, you get left with a grand total of 3 god damn points to spend however you wish.

Vs. Our current choice of talent trees that give you 7 choices. And thats just spec, mind you. We havent even talked about class talent tree, which however delightulky has at least a a grand total of 9 choices to put in stuff that you currently get throught talents, or used to get through azerite passives or whatever the god damn else.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/411652431848538134/982946249969901578/unknown.png

In total, you have 31 + 30 choices to make, so 61.

Divide 12 by 61 and you have a grand total of 19.6% of actual choices to make out of the whole talent tree.

The rest 100 - 19.6 = 80.4% are false choices.

Now, answer my question.

You are not answering my question. In what instance is less going to be more rewarding than more?

This is such a bs argument fr lol. Its like if you told me that previously i only had 20 choices for pizza toppings but could choose 6, now i have 30 choices but can only choose 4.

Also ontop of that some of those toppings were baseline (cheese and tomato sauce), now you have to pick them too.

Of course they did, because that means they get to add in false choices into the talents and can just blame the player if they make “wrong” choices, rather than designing it better lol.

Devs so bad they cant design the game so they outsource it to the players

Stay mad + bad

1 Like
102

I hope tho that so many core abilities (at least of the main) are just there for a preview and won’t be there at the end.

Rotational core abilities like FS, Obli, HB, RW should be default.
(Could argue that a single main cd like PoF should be baseline as well)

For the rest i am pretty positive, i would like to see less “Infected Wounds” type of talents and more talents that make you go like " wooo this is soooo cool and this too how do i get both"

1 Like
103

Ah yes the classic goalpost “its just alpha”
Its just beta
Its just prepatch
Its just 10.0
Its just 10.1
Next expansion will fix it

The absolute cope of these posts

3 Likes
104

Dude… just looking at the picture there, you can get 10 of the 11 talents and the 11th you can get half of it as it’s a 2 pointer.

So where tf can you get less than live?
You can get more usual stuff, or get the blue talent ones, it’s a CHOICE you don’t have on live.

Use your brain.
You think the placement of these talents is going to stay the same throughout the development process???

It’s rotational if you pick them, if you don’t in DF, they won’t be.
You make your bed and sleep in it.
Chose your poison.

Blizzard said that you can make a bad spec if you want, nobody’s stopping you.

1 Like
105

You have to spend the vast majority og your talents to get the stuff you now have baseline. While, as said, the supposedly massively improved talent tree offers us 20% choice.

You are paying for 20% out of a promised 100%.

How much more clearer does this need to be made.

1 Like
106

Yeah.
Legion alpha.
Bfa alpha.
SL alpha.

Nothing changed. Absolutely nothing. So if anything i could ask you what kind of proof do you have that they will listen to feedback?

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107

Like i said, make a spec and see what you lose and what you win versus live.

How many more times does it need to be said?
You’re just saying that you’re losing a lot of stuff, make a list of what you’re losing and what you’re gaining.
If you are losing more than you’re gaining, in value not in number solely, that’s the point where you show how bad it is versus live.

Nothing changed? Sure… they didn’t make any changes, any passes for any classes/specs throughout the development process.
How can you say that? lol

Okay i just randomly searched for a Shadowlands BETA post on MMO Champ.

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/2570435-Shadowlands-Beta-Build-9-0-2-35938-Spell-Changes

Oh look, they make changes and adjustments to spells and abilities.
Who the hell would have thought??

108

Personally i think the balance ones looks awesome, cant wait to get my hands on it.

109

I made the list and I proved you lose more than you gain already. If you are too thick to understand pictures then i can’t help you.

The literal picture made by the guy proves that we lose more than we gain. Thats what the picture demonstrates.

Yes, you have more (false) choices. But the actual amount of abilities is either the samd or less, depending on what talents you choose.

Its the equilevant of taking the current talent trees, blizzard picks 6 out of 7 rows for you and you cant change them, and then you get to make 1 choice with that 1 row.

If this is the hill you want to die on fine. But i have proven you are objectively wrong and since you refuse to tell me how is less more, you admit you are wrong.

2 Likes
110

Yeah, absolutely nothing changed about class design. 0. Nada. Not a thing.

1 Like
111

You didn’t make any list.
Where did you list what spells/abilities you’re losing?
And also what you’re gaining?

Are you lying right now? yes… yes you are.

Here’s the link again, it seems you conveniently missed it:
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/2570435-Shadowlands-Beta-Build-9-0-2-35938-Spell-Changes

112

Since you refuse to look at the picture because it proves you wrong you can’t see the list.

113

When 75% of the tree is just basic abilities then it is of course only a delusion of choice. Like why do i need to spend points to get my dispel as healer?

But i will not be too negative for now. I need to see some other spec-trees to for my real oppinion. When we get ~the same as we have now, we didnt win anything and also not lose. Then it is just whatever.

2 Likes
114

Changing numbers isn’t game design.

115

Changing numbers is an important part of game design.

Here’s another random link:
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/2571287-Shadowlands-Beta-Class-Changes-for-the-Upcoming-Build?highlight=Shadowlands+BETA

Feel free to go through all listed here:
https://www.mmo-champion.com/search.php?searchid=69286641

You can pick most of those, you didn’t have ALL of those on live at the same time, you had to pick 1/3 for each of the 7 rows of talents.

So show me the list of exact spells you’re losing after you make the new tree.

I’ll ask you the same, make a tree and show me what you lose and what you win.
75% being basic abilities, throwing random numbers out doesn’t mean anything.

116

You have to pick / Blizzard expects you to pick *

Not the same thing.

Again, you are the one trying to sell us that we should be thankful and glad we’re being sold the same clothes we have used for the past 8 years in a new package!

You are the one telling us it’s not a problem that 75% of these spec talent trees (as the blood death knight one proves) are things you are anyway expected to pick, despite the whole talent tree being sold to us as a free choice! You are the one telling us 25 % = 100%.

You are the one saying its gonna look different and you can do some cool builds when all of us god damn know it will be the exact same as it is now with some passives stolen from previous expansions and borrowed powers.

Thats a story you are gonna have to sell, not me. Good luck.

117

You can pick stuff up from the other specs if you want.
Nobody’s stopping you, versus live where you DON’T have the option.

You are expected to make a spec with the points given.
Nothing more, nothing less, you have points to spend.

You’re gaining more than you’re losing.

Bringing stuff from the past isn’t bad, they come back with that stuff because they worked with the specs/classes.

If you had a live version and a DF version of a class, the DF version would be by leaps and bounds more powerful, because they get more stuff.
I can’t believe you’d want the live version more, lmao.

1 Like
118

I think in the end it is currently about the same. I am not saying i win or lose a lot. I am just seeing a lot of basic abilities in the trees. And obviously i called a ‘random number’ since the trees are not even done yet. But definitely a big part is just normal baselines. I can’t get positive or negative about it, yet.

119

Tell me how that’s worse than already having them baseline with the current setup?

I’ll tell you how it’s better, you can chose other stuff if you want, versus live where you just don’t have that option.

120

Tell me where i sad it is better or worse?

You are just cherry picking with quotes just for sake of arguing. i literally sad

Have also a nice day :+1:

1 Like