im playing it since mop as a main.
i possibly raided with every possible combination. you cant just choose ‘whatever’. you must choose a build. and there are bad builds. and its not fun to play a bad build.
its not fun when someone post the dps list, im behind the tanks.
I didn’t cherry pick anything from your posts, i responded to all parts.
Cherry picking means to take only a part of your post out of context.
So how does the current talent tree help you versus the new talent tree?
How does that utility you’re going to chose between lose you dps?
You have dps choices, you also have utility choices.
There are also different fights where you’ll have other choices to make to cater to how they are.
To put a bottom line, the new trees don’t deter you from going meta and that’s it.
If someone chooses to not make a meta spec, that’s on them and will not affect you in any way.
Exactly that you are doing. For now i put you on ignore. Have a great day.
You can put me on ignore, but it doesn’t change that you can’t see how the new trees are an upgrade to the current ones.
When your actual selling point for an expansion is that you are free to make suboptimal specs like never before and ruin your and others gameplay experience.
Jfc.
The worst part is that i can honestly see some of the devs unironically planning it this way lmaoo.
Yeah because you could have just given interrupts back baseline to all the classes, like some of them used to be. Rebuke and spear hand strike for example.
So on live i have an interrupt as ret, fine and dandy.
It’s useless for some bosses.
In DF i can talent out of that interrupt for other utility, or defensive abilities.
How is that making my build suboptimal?
I can customize my build for what i need better.
But you can’t see the merit of that ofc.
Most healing specs don’t have interrupts, in DF they can have them if they want/need them, versus having other utility/defensives/dps.
They could have given every bloody spell to every spec too. It’s like allowing you to put 50+ points in each tree and get everything at once.
But then there would be no point to talent trees.
OFC they won’t give you everything.
You can indeed play whatever you want in wow if you can play it well enough. Of course there are optimal build and not that good ones but overall the player skill and familiarity with their spec is vastly more important. I’ve played venthyr arcane for all of castle nathria and in that time met maybe 2 fire mages that could outdps me even though they were a significantly stronger spec.
If you are below the tanks in dps that is not your talents fault.
There has always been an aspect of “I have to get X to achieve Y even though I dislike X” in WoW talent trees all the way back to vanilla. The issue I’ve seen thus far with shown talent trees is to get to certain desirable final points, the big flashy useful skills you often have to take one you may no desire or see a need to have. I plan on being RDruid for DF, but I am now open to just playing as DPS because I’m not sure I like how the druid talents currently are. I’ll have to wait and see.
Yes i know, i would prefer if they were not a choice tho.
Personal taste i guess.
Revolutionary idea that has been in the game since 2004 but not every ability is used or useful for everything, that doesn’t mean they need to be a choice.
I asked you befofe but you still havemt answered to any of us: How is my gameplay experience going to be more enhanced and better if I have to spend my talents and abilities i currently have baseline, but in the next expansion I mudt manually pick them up, and potentially giving up something in return.
I don’t want to swap my talents around all the time. My class should be a complete toolkit on its own, and whatever accessories i choose to put onto it should be complementary, not essential.
It doesn’t matter if I can choose to have some other utility over the kick in an encounter where i dont need a kick, because I would be infinitely more rewarded and feel good if I could have my interrupt and just choose have something new from the row of talents to make my already solid class better.
There’s nothing positive about that.
Aye because blizzard pruned them in legion. Blizzard lovws pruning and if it was up to them they would turn this game into 1-3 ability fiesta that they can play on their tablets and phones because they sure as hell never play this game anyway.
You only know what made the game fun FOR YOU. That doesn’t mean you know how to make it fun for other types of players. Let people have their opinion. It’s fine to disagree, but to tell them to shut up because they’re dumb is very narrowminded and frankly ‘dumb’ in and of itself.
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Easy:
A) You have baseline abilities A B C as spec X
You also have a number of abilities baseline, you get them while lvling, very linear.
B) You have abilities in the tree A B C… and D G E from other specs
You can chose which ones you want, you couldn’t have D G E on live.
You now have them in the tree, you put points to get them, weighting which way you want to go first and in the end which ones you want to end up with.
That’s the difference and why it’s better than what you now have live.
It matters, because if we had what we have now on live, you’d maybe get another row, so only 1 ability.
As is the new tree, you can get more abilities than you would have gotten.
This is mutually exclusive with the idea of specializations. You can’t specialise AND be a full toolkit.
Why not? Something can be fun without being useful, for example - half the toys we get.
Why? You make claims, you say what you want and talk about your feelings but give no reasoning. Why should every class have everything? All you do there is make everyone roll druid because then they have every possible playstyle as a Tank, Healer, Melee and Caster.
The whole point of a spec and points is not just for your amusement, its to make you consider what you’re up against and plan accordingly. While it’s very loose, WoW is basically a DND game and as such proper planning and spec are what leads to rewards.
You’re looking for babbies first talent trees to remain in the game because it makes your life easier, but as someone who played vanilla until now I can tell you old talent trees are more impactful and rewarding. Of course this is only my opinion but I can back it up with experiences and reasoning.
3 Likes
You are describing how it works, not how it is better compared to what I have now.
I will take 1 more row that offers me 3 interesting choices over a tree that offers me 80% false choices and the remaining 20 lukewarm passive choices i didn’t ask for any day of the week.
Your baseline kit is your engineering certificate. Your specialization is whatever you specialize in.
You dont suddenly lose the general skills and talents of engineering because you pick 1 path.
Jfc.
I have. See for the pizza topping example above.
I even offered an alternative to these false choices, using the unholy dk talent tree as an example.
That is how druid was designed in vanilla, the very same expansion you refer to with such reverence, aye. Druid was the jack of all trades, master of none.
I do think guardian and feral for one should be the same spec, but that is asides the issue.
Wow and DND have about as much in common as humans and birds do in the sense that they are both warmblooded.
Also, as has been shown, up to 80% of these talents are no choices at all. They sre false choices. Now, in fairness, its not like current talents dont also have a cookie cutter problem. There is always a better choice. Thats not the issue, however.
The issue is Blizzsard markets these things as choices when they are not. If on the other hand they offered you a choice how you for example deal damage (e.g. UH dk disease build vs pet build) that would be a genuine choice.
Equally I could point out that as someone who played through MoP, an expansion universally liked by everyone who played through it and ranked as one of the best expansions this game had after Wotlk, that MoP was amazing because of all the abilities classes had.
And nobody (0/0) has remembered the subsequent legion and wod prunes with warmth and “boy mop sure was terrible expack”.
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You said complete toolkit. Don’t act like you didn’t. I even quoted you on it. That JFC? That shows me you aren’t up for a discussion, you want an Echo Chamber to feel like your opinion is correct, when it isn’t that cut and dry. Also, MoP only became a beloved expansion in retrospect due to WoD being so awful. You see a similar thing right now with BFA, hated at the time but due to the failings of SL you will see people oft say they’re prefer BFA. At launch and during Pandaria it was routinely mocked and belittled by people, the only thing loved at the time was SoO.
(Edit, said WoD, meant Pandaria.)
That difference is why it’s better in DF… you can chose between A B C D G E. You have more to choose from.
You also don’t know how it will look like in the end, they’re not finished designing abilities for the classes.
You’re also getting more than 1 extra ability, that’s a big plus.
Yeah, and would you disagree that an engineering certificate is a complete kit, just as I showed in my example?
Nah I instead think that you are rustled that you didn’t consider the point and now that my argument has shown how little sense it makes, it has made your point look a bit off.
Stay mad etc. I dont have an echo chamber, my opinions are my own. I loathe the game design since Legion and after fighting for 3 expansions to get my baseline abilities back, I am not going to say I am fine with them bwing turned into talents that Blizzard has the audacity to call choices, when they are not.
Riddle me this, then: If I ask this forum or any portion of the playerbase that have played this game since or before MoP whether they prefered MoP class design to that of WoD or even Legion, which one do you think will win?
Well, you don’t actually need to anwer that. More is always better.
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Again, if i have 20 choices and in the new one i have 30 or more choices, it doesn’t matter because the amount of choices I have has been reduced from 15 to 10.
Aye I am presented with more choice but I can have less.
So again, I ask: In what instance will I ever feel like that is better? Because thats all these talebt trees are. Disguised prune.
Its only alpha.
Its only beta.
Its only- etc etc.
Even though talent builds are still in alpha and nothing has been set in stone WE SHOULD voice our concerns and suggestions. There’s nothing wrong with that.
Earlier developers notice this, earlier they can make the decision to make real changes. Expecting massive changes once beta launches to talent overhaul would be a mistake as time has shown again and again. Beta is more of the preview time rather than massive change time.
2 Likes