Back in the days someone in blizzard says “…you think you wanna classic wow but you don’t…” words of blizzard employers don’t mean nothing.
They create problem, they do nothing about it, they take out money so we expect to get solution and if they dont wanna do it ,so at least give us LFD system so we can play the game.
and siting in Shat for 30,60,90 min and spaming LFG is not a content
You’re asking me why I don’t want to kill my own server community because your server is literally dead. Self explanatory don’t you think why I don’t want mine dead?
I am asking nothing. I am arguing against your statement, which is also quite overdramatised. You server won’t die if LFG is introduced, it is not like something is taken away from you. You are still free to form groups with just players from your very own server. If you like to do so. For us on the other hand it provides a tool to still stay active and on our realm. So you get another option to form a group, we get another option to form a group - Nothing is stolen from us. I can see the point that social interactions may diminish and I am open for those concerns but lets also be real - These are NOT connected realms like on retail. We will still see the very same people and your guild staying around in Shatt. I highly doubt that a tool that helps to form groups will kill your server/community. You will still do raids with your guild and you will still do PVP with your mates.
Yes, you’re on a server with 300 people.
And what? So first you deny these problems exist and when I invite you to have a look yourself you reply “Ah what do you expect it’s a small sever”. So you acknowdlege that group finding is indeed on a problem on low pop factions?! If so why do you think your problems and well beeing is on a higher priority than mine or any other player in the game. We all pay the same fee and so we all have right that our problems get addressed.
In the end your scenario is nothing more than hypothetical. There is a potential that it harms your server like dozens of other changes might also. Tommorow 3 big guilds can leave and it ends up in a spiral. However, for us the LFG tool can only bring upsides. In the worst case it does nothing and in the best case it helps us to sustain until a solution for this mess comes around.
Don’t ask me to burn down my villiage because yours failed spectacularly then expect me not to respond in kind.
See above + As you also stated LFD was introduced in Wrath, more specifically mid Wrath:
Release WotLK: 13.11.2008
Release Dungeonfinder: 08.12.2009
Release Cataclysm: 07.12.2010
Each iteration of classic was played on the last respective patch. If they have a better plan on fixing the realm problems I am open for that. Until than I rather trust the former devs and there (controversial) implementations than the Blizzard today. Modern Blizz has just proven to often to me that they make the wrong decisions (Layer, Free Transfer handling, Refusal of bug fixes). They had the biggest IP in history in Sep 2019 with thousand of players wanting to relive the classic experience and somehow they managed to kill all the hype. These people will not address Server imbalance problems - they just want to profit of a game made 12 years ago. The frequency on how often they response to feedback is a clear indicator for that. They release a patch and than they are dead silent for months.
It’s literally a system based on convenience, if you weren’t on a dead server the issue wouldn’t persist. I know exactly what the situation is like because I was forced to move from Zandalar Tribe to Earthshaker after the realm transfers opened up.
Sorry and with all respect but you cannot understand the situation we are currently in. (I guess you are Alliance since you went to Earthshaker). Zandalar Tribe had 1.5k Alliance players when they got free transfers. At that moment we already had less than a third (441) of that population and were left out. Now the situation has even worsened. And guess what Blizzard is not intervening - They are doing what they can do best - Nothing. So sorry I don’t expect anything from that company. I have a guild here. I don’t want to leave them and understandably a lot of the guys (including me) don’t want to reward Blizzard for there server mismanagement. At this point it not about the money but about integrity.
It’s pretty obvious that you are narrow minded like all the “muh community” idiots , so let me try to explain why LFD isn’t so bad.
Nothing is stopping you and everyone else to form groups like you used before completely ignoring the existence of LFD. The LFD systems offers convenience and it’s certainly a huge help for the low pop even medium pop servers. What if someone’s schedule doesn’t allow them to play during peak hours and can only play really early or really late ? LFD helps that person find a group with other people with the same schedule.
The statement that LFD destroyed communities is so moronic I don’t even know where to start . You still have your guild to socialise, there’s PvP communities as well to socialise , to think that a convenience to a 5 man meaningless content is community breaking , your IQ has to be room temperature during winter .
And to top it all off, people saying that LFD gone is a good thing , are either terrible players and they play wow to treat it like a chat box cause their IRL social skills suck and they have to treat a game as their form of human communication hence the obsession of “muh community “ or they either not even playing the game and posting from underleveled alts
Again, then don’t sit doing nothing. “But i won’t find a group then” → Make your own groups.
Yes, you are. You’re directly telling me the only way your community can survive is if you obliterate the idea of players even needing to bother to interact with each on my server through a system that was implemented very late in to the game against the wishes of the then design lead Kevin Jordan, who’s specifically stated as much himself.
Players will always take the least path of resistance, if you let them they will optimize every aspect of this game from it’s core in order to achieve their goals. If the most optimal path was to play in way that was completely antithetical to what an MMORPG is they would because their only goal is to achieve victory. If you think anyone is going to bother even using the LFG channel outside of raid pugs then you’re either very naive or you think I am to believe that.
I watched what happened to my server community through this process once already, it was a slow, gradual process but eventually people start to treat each other like they’re ghosts because the reality is once you have no value as an individual there’s no need for anyone to bother interacting with you as much as they once did. When you automate the process to remove the element that’s needed to interact with people and when you make it cross realm, you ensure that there’s an infinite supply of people to draw from so the people on your server no longer matter as they once did. It atomizes the community in a way like no other, which is really what my concern is. I obviously don’t want any player to be in a situation where they’re stuck like you and Blizzard wrongfully has neglected the servers.
Because the game is fundamentally designed around the idea of having a populated server to draw players from, we’re playing an MMORPG you’re actually meant to be interacting with a community of people to achieve your goals that’s the whole aim of the game to begin with. Even by Classic standard servers weren’t capped as low as yours were, throwing away core ethos of the game for the sake of convenience is why retail is effectively retail. Obviously you have the right to have your problems addressed but I don’t agree with a solution that WILL kneecap communities on every realm in Classic. This isn’t a what ‘if’ it’s an observable fact, this isn’t something I’m pulling from a hat.
I don’t disagree over all, it’s obviously been mishandled but bear in mind LFD was released on the ICC patch. So even we’re going by the standards that we’re doing EVERYTHING in phases it didn’t come until the very end of Wrath. Overall I just can’t agree with an automated system that takes reduces the player to null, you want convenience and ease of access because you’re obviously in a poor situation but I’m not so I want a solution that doesn’t involve sabotaging the server community I’m apart of.
I invite you to try it on my server. Some people surely need a reality check. If you reach a critical mass positive thinking sadly isn’t enough. And how much time do you think is a reasonable of time? 15 min, 30? 1 hour?
When you learn to speak to me like you’re an adult and not like you’re posting on an anonymous imageboard, I’ll be happy to speak with you.
I’m treating you like the child you are , refusing to empathise with people that are in a rough spot and LFD that was in actually Wotlk , is going to help them have a better gaming experience. If you wanna socialise, find same minded people to do so, LFD won’t prevent you from doing that
On Celebras we try that.
But it seams that the Alliance there with a few hundred people is still to big to get you anything and that need to die down to our horde numbers of 100-150 so we can get done anything because then it seems all but three guilds of each 50 players shrinked together so they get together and really help to get anything done instead of T.E.A.M. that is roughly translated as There Exist Another Person.
I feel you. Sadly we are for dungeons already so far that reasonable waiting for below 50 is one month, for the Daily NHC 1-2 Hours and for a Heroic you better try your luck on the daily.
No, not agreeing you isn’t a lack of empathy. You don’t call people names because you don’t agree with them and then LARP that makes you the adult in the situation, you talk about empathy while talking to me like a ten year old posting on /v/.
LFD not ruining communities is not a matter of opinion , it’s a fact. People that wanna play WoW for the social aspect of the game can still do it even with LFD being in the game.
No, that’s your opinion. A system that incentivizes people not to interact with each other because they no longer need to for group content does fundamentally harmful to the community aspect of the game.
You can still interact inside the dungeon with the players ,you can be vote kicked if you are toxic as well. Again it’s not up to you to decide how people want to play . LFD existed in Wotlk. Some people liked it some didn’t AND THATS fine . Like I said guilds are a much environment to socialise . If you need random 5 mans to socialise I genuinely feel sorry for you
No, I think the original tenrts of the game and it’s design philosophy are important that’s why I bring this up. Pretending the core ethos of the game is unimportant because it’s more convenient isn’t something I’m for.
I know it did, it was added in ICC at the end of the expansion but if you read any of my posts you know most of the time I’m bad mouthing the system is because it was implemented against the wishes of the original lead designer. I genuinally think a system that decentivizes people from having to interact as they once did is a bad thing, especially in a socially orientated game like an MMORPG. Over time I’ve seen the damage it’s done, I think it’s dishonest to pretend otherwise. It’s slow at first but eventually people start treating each other like ghosts from dark souls.
No I just don’t think watering down aspects of the game for the sake of convenience is a good thing.
This won’t help low pop realms or even medium outside peak hours . Are you guys even playing the game ? Or are you playing on mega servers ? Server imbalance and population issues have been active for over 8 months and yet not a single word for that. Yeah kudos to them for improving a badly designed LFG tool that still nobody is gonna use and let’s forget a dozen of badly imbalanced servers
Mid pop server. Leveling all classes (already 3x 70)
Ofc i’m playing during peak hour and making my own group especially with class that can tank/heal.
I agree that DPS is a bit harder, so what ? Quests still exist.
IMO they plan to fix server balance as they were asking for it in their Wrath survey.
People say retail is antisocial . Let me give you an example . In 2018 I got into MDI Blizzcon competition(mythic dungeon invitational). I met my team through LFG system , they were completely random to me but after doing some keys we started running more stuff together and eventually we formed a
team that got us into the tournament . Why do I say this ? No matter what if people wanna socialise and play with someone else they are gonna do it . LFD won’t stop people from socialising . You still haven’t answered to what happens if someone plays super early or super late ? Or someone is playing on a low population . I guess F them right ?
EDIT: In case people don’t know how
LFG worked in legion, when someone applied to your group you could only see his class , iLvL so it wasn’t that interactive
Precisely the reason I think retail is anti-socal is why I actually ended up leaving, the games been turned in to a single player experience where you can essentially achieve almost all your goals with out ever need to interact with people or rely on people outside of mythic+ and raids.
Like I said, A system that incentivizes people not to interact with each other because they no longer need to for group content does fundamentally harm the community. I stand by it and no I don’t think destroying that aspect of the game for the sake of convenience at all hours is a good thing.
if you obliterate the idea of players even needing to bother to interact on my server through a system that was implemented very late in to the game
I have provided the exact dates. And while it was indeed late “contentwise” Cata was released a year later.
Players will always take the least path of resistance, if you let them they will optimize every aspect of this game from it’s core in order to achieve their goals.
Indeed that is what most will probably people do. If you want to swim against the tide you are free to do so. But it feels like you force me to jump into the same river and watch me drown. In the end Earthshaker will still be the same - I would also argue that people will less likely leave cause one of the potential benefits (easier group findings) is gone. And if you feel the need to have more social interactions outside of your guild then you are free to do so. The LFG channel is not removed.
When you automate the process to remove the element that’s needed to interact with people and when you make it cross realm
Yet again, I can see those concerns. I see the danger of people dropping out mid dungeon cause the needed item didn’t drop. I see the risk of people with low social responsibility just abandoning groups, but on the other hand - I also had these players in my group on my server. It is a mentality thing that can happen anywhere. And especially on big servers with 6-10k players - how much community is left? GDKPs everywhere, gear requirements, reserves and soon gear scores. It is rather a problem of supply and demand. If I know I can find another GDKP tommorow my threshold for just dropping the raid will decrease. That has nothing to do with the LFG itself but how many potential raids you have access to and this factor is closely connected to the server size.
throwing away core ethos of the game for the sake of convenience is why retail is effectively retail. Obviously you have the right to have your problems addressed but I don’t agree with a solution that WILL kneecap communities on every realm in Classic.
I could argue that we passed that river long gone. And that’s also why I hate the statement “You think you do but you don’t”. If Blizzard would have been more proactive we wouldn’t have reached the state we are currently in. It takes time and effort to balance and counterbalance aspects of the game. Blizzard neither had the time nor the talent to do so. They recreated the problems that led to inevitable development of those controversial tools - which were surely also necessary back in the day. They didn’t learn from the past and blame the player base for the end results. However, they are the only ones who can detect and take countermeasures against certain trends. They could have prevented mega servers. They could have prepared clever merges, they could have done this or that. However, they decided to only act when the problems reached there full impact. And I feel like this very approach will inevitable send us down the path retail has taken. At the moment there is no solution for small communities. Even giving them free transfers to bigger realms will just bloat the latter. And the community aspect on those bloated servers is not that afar from the LFG experience you describe.
How much socialisation do you want lmao? You want literally every aspect of the game to be social ? Are you for real ? You got pvp to be social , you have raids , hell you can even do achievement runs and form communities , but you think
LFD is bad cause is gonna help some people find a group ? Like it’s insane how some people think , drives me absolutely crazy. Dungeons are a minor thing in Wotlk but for some reason if a guy wants to do a dungeon in 5 am its community breaking . Absolutely mental