Except that Ion specifically said, at the deep dive presentation, that delves were made with world content and solo players in mind. Because ‘they have been underserved for a long time’.
He mentioned that delves are shorter forms of content; about 15 mins or so (which, btw isn’t really true until you get good gear). But he never said it was ‘for’ people who don’t play a lot of hours.
But there’s arguing about the term casual in this thread, which is just so silly.
There is no universally accepted definition of the term. For some it means ‘don’t play a lot’, for others it means ‘don’t do high end content’, and it can mean even more different things to someone.
So just never use the term casual. It’s a bad term.
That makes zero sense though. By that logic every non multiplayer game is aimed at “casual players” since you can play 5 minutes per year and eventually complete the game.
I am a casual and I play games more than I go to my IRL job.
I looked up that video and watched it a few weeks ago.
But basically it boils down to this:
You can be a Casual Solo Player. Or a Hard Core Solo Player, as you can see Solo play does not equal casual play. What Ian said is that they will have “Solo Players” in mind. He did not specify Casual or Hard Core.
Basically.
Casual/HardCore is “hours played”, or WHEN you play. And Solo/Group play is WHAT you play.
You can have any combination of WHEN and WHAT.
Delves were Designed for a WHEN (Casual) as stated by Ian and Blizzard, and in addition Ian specifically said that nobody will be excluded (the WHAT). But he did NOT say that Delves are exclusive to Solo Players. ONLY that they wont be “left behind” sort of speak.
And its important to define specifically these things because otherwise people get frustrated.
For me there is no debate. Google “Casual Videogame Player” and every single page (im not exaggerating) sais the same exact thing: Few hours played. And usually contrast it to “Hard-Core” which means “a lot” of hours played.
What people debate is how many hours are “few” hours. And that is what I find stupid.
But the people that call “casuals” as “don’t do high end content” are wrong. Because people can have an opinion about things, but that dosent mean its correct.
It makes perfect sense. They design games with certain types of playerbase in mind.
If a game is made to be played on 30 min bite-size bits every year then it will be a totally different game than one that is designed to be played more consistently.
And when you buy a game, you have to know this. Because if you wont engage with the game as its intended, then you will not like it. Simple as that.
Also: Its per-game, not in total. So you could a Casual Skyrim Player and a Hard-Core Baldurs Gate 3 player.
That, again, depends on your definition of ‘casual’ and ‘hard core’.
I just don’t agree with that notion. Not when we have a solo delve endboss for this season that, on its XX difficulty, is quite challenging.
No he didn’t, and I definitely never claimed that. But he did say it was made ‘for’ solo players.
And content being made ‘for’ a specific audience, doesn’t automatically exclude others from doing it.
For instance; Plunderstorm. It’s PvP content, but many PvE people participated in it.
You think they’re wrong. That’s not a fact. It can’t be a fact, because there IS no universally accepted definition of the term ‘casual’.
And exactly as you say: You have an opinion, but that doesn’t mean it’s correct.
For general gaming, that might be true.
But WoW is unlike most games. And ‘my proof’ are these forums and threads like these where people argue about the term and what it means.
But even with games that are not WoW… I’m sure there’s plenty people who would call me ‘casual’ because I play games on the easiest setting available - and often with cheats or mods as well in single player games.
Yeah, but argue with their own made up “idea” of what it means, and their own flawed logic and interpretations.
Like… I can argue about “flat earth” all day. But a quick research into the literature ends the discussion right then and there. No need to over-think it or make up arguments. Just Google things !
For example: A person that does not engage in high-end content can have the following names:
Non-competitive Gamer – This could describe someone who enjoys gaming but doesn’t engage in the competitive aspects (like eSports or ranking systems).
Mainstream Gamer – Sometimes used to describe people who play popular or “mainstream” games that aren’t too complex or challenging but are still part of the gaming culture.
Recreational Gamer – This term suggests someone who plays games more for recreation and enjoyment rather than for serious, high-stakes play.
I personally avoid using ‘casual’.
I call myself a ‘pre-dominantly world content player who prefers playing solo’.
For WoW anyway.
I’m definitely not someone who plays games for the challenge. I play them for an experience, a story, immersion. That sort of thing. Or to be creative; that’s a valid reason as well.
Well I buy based on genre not how much I can play. I have 50+ hours I can play games per week, I wouldn’t buy a racing game that said it was for hardcore people who can play 50 hours per week. I hate racing games I’d never buy one.
The casual/hardcore discussion feels very cyclical
I think its better to just look at what delves do, which is the following:
It adds a mythic vault track under a new category of world content and is the only way to get vault items above the minimum ilvl you can get from the vault for that category.
It has the option to enter with a group and scales with your group even, but also has the option to solo, meaning it is role and group fluid, designed both solo and group play (solo and group are 3 words away from eachother in the original advertised text)
It also gives hero track gear consistantly through the mythic vault and inconsistantly through the bounty maps on a tier 8 delve, but will never give you enough gilded crests to really upgrade more then I reckon 2 hero track items beyond the champion track ilvl cap, I reckon that is to incentivize people to go into dungeons and raids to get crests for that.
Going by that logic, I think that even if they don’t add new delves in 11.2, they will still keep it as a mythic vault track because there will simply be people who will be looking at all the hero track gear delves can give them and think man I need to start getting some gilded crests who then start maybe doing dungeons or raids where they weren’t doing them before delves.
And no not everyone will be like this, a lot of people are content doing just delves, but I can imagine that from the perspective of a game developper of an MMO, if it leads to more participation in group content like raids and groups it is still a net positive to the game.
Because for me that doesn’t matter.
And certainly in WoW’s case, that fluctuates a lot. When there’s new content, I play quite a bit. When there’s not, I don’t. When I love the new content, I play a lot.
At this moment I’m not playing WoW much. I play on reset day, maybe 3 hours or so.
And throughout the week I play maybe 1 hour per day on average.
But that can change depending on my mood, the content of the game, other stuff I’ve got going on in my life, etc.
At the moment I’m playing the new Life is Strange and the new Dragon Age. More DA at the moment, because I want to completely immerse myself into LiS, so I’m saving that.
So at the moment, I could be considered ‘hardcore’ when it comes to the amount of time I’ve poured into gaming this last week or so. But when there isn’t a new game and WoW is all I play, I really don’t game all that much. For months and months that was the case.
Anyway… my point is: I don’t think you can just put such that definition on someone.
But I think that generally the part of the playerbase that delves are aimed at, are not the sort of players to do that. I myself would not start doing raids or M+ no matter what. In fact: I’d sooner quit the game than do raids or M+.
I agree that the content for delves is intended to be standalone, but I don’t think that the reward structure of showers you with hero track items (assuming you have some ok luck with the vault and bounty maps) without giving you the crests to upgrade them is an accident either yeah, or maybe its not even intended but it just panned out that way.
Still, I think even if its just 1 out of a 1000, you could still make the arguement its a net positive for the game as a whole from the developers perspective even if thats not what delves are intended to do, which I think they’re not, its mostly the hero track items it rewards that try to do that I think.
The context of my post is also trying to argue against the op’s original post of ‘will delves be removed?’ and I’m just trying to paint a picture that even if blizzard would consider discontinueing delves, they’d still likely not remove them for that potential pipeline into groups and raids reason
For 3 weeks I was a Hard-Core playing 3/4h a day. For the past 2 weeks I played Casually only 2h on reset. I am a casual now. Sometime in the future I wont. Easy.
But either way. Here is what is important from this discussion and why its important:
As you know, I play M+. But M+ is a game mode that is not designed with “casual” (few hours of gametime) gameplay in mind. Because you get left behind in Rio, you get left behind in ilvl, friends/guildies replace you by someone more consistent, ect…
So whenever I decide to play hard-core again, I KNOW that there is a price to pay. Because I played that game-mode casually for 2 weeks already and I KNOW im behind in Rio and I will have to climb it back up.
And the inverse is also true for Delves. If its designed to be played “slowly” and you decide to play hard-core on Delves, then there is a price to play that game-mode as “not intended” : You run out of things to do really fast.
Yeah it’s silly that you have to hope for a rare drop to get your hands on some gilded crests. So far I’ve earned 18 of them; so that is 1 whole upgrade. One.
That’s a bit annoying, for sure.
But I’m not doing M+ or raids, regardless. I’ll just accept that I can’t fully upgrade my gear.
OP is completely troll-bait. Delves are not getting removed. Of course they’re not.
OP is even gloating about it. Just a troll, pure and simple.
Well, I simply don’t agree that someone who does high M+ keys or high end raiding is a casual. Even if they don’t put in a large amount of hours. They’re putting in dedication and effort; which requires more than a casual is willing to put into a game.
Fair enough. Yeah, the way you play content has consequences, I agree.
I myself don’t have a whole lot to do at the moment in WoW. Basically I just need to fill 3 vault slots so I can get some more coins. Pretty boring, but it is what it is.
I could be spamming level 8 delves for the crests, but I don’t want to. They’re not fun enough to do that.
