That is the thing. I am not trying to count players.
I am only pointing out that blizzard has stated in their reveal posts that Delves are made for players that play for few hours.
And people that “play for few hours” have a name. They are called Casuals. And the whole deal with Totemfar is the fact that you don’t need to define an exact number to claim that there exists an undefined number of players that “play for few hours”.
You would need to define that number if the goal was to count how many people are “casuals”. But that is not what I want to argue. I just want to say that they exist. Thats all.
They stated it’s for people that want to have “meaningful PROGRESSION”… You could, still do RP as a lvl 1 daily for hours even YOU would claim to be “hard core” doesn’t mean you progress
Please, do understand that “progression” is the keyword you intentionally keep leaving out.
I dont get what is so unclear about this. A definition by time instead of substance is not hard to grasp.
This still holds.
I repeat, I did not define it. Google “casual in gaming” and you will get atleast 200 sources claiming the same thing. That a casual is defined by game-time and not by game type.
Basically, there is no source that sais that a “casual player” is someone that plays XYZ game or game-mode. They ALL say that its a player that spends little time gaming.
And no, not everyone can be a casual. For the same reason that not everyone can be a Hard-Core player.
If you were to draw a graph of frequency vs. weekly hours played you would get some results. And there is always a left side of the graph (someone that plays 0 hours per week) and a right side of the graph (someone that plays 168 hours per week).
And you can draw a line on that graph wherever you want. But wherever you choose to put it, the people to the left are “casuals” and the people to the right are “hard-core”.
Or you could get more elaborate and put 2 lines instead of 1. Or 3 lines. Or 50 line and give 50 new names to 50 new categories of players. The fact STILL remains, the group that ends up farthest to the left of that graph is called “casuals”.
And I did not define this. Its an accepted definition and I just posted ONE source of many.
Progression with out significant time commitments. I dont get why progression is relevant here.
They are literally saying: “You get XYZ results with the little time you play”. Sure… but its still designed with “little time” in mind.
And Ion is super happy with them and will be a thing going forward… Delves are for ppl who don’t want to put up with other ppl and their little egos lol… You think Zekvir ?? is for casuals?
So what? You are an RP Hard-Core player. What’s the issue here?
Or even better. You could be a Mythic Raider in a guild that raids mythic only 2h a week. You would then be a “casual mythic raider”. Whats the issue here ?
It’s literally what I have been saying from the start:
Fact is that Delves were designed for people that play for a limited time. The fact that you progress or not is totally independent of that.
And I am supper happy that Delves are a success.
And yes. Zekvir ?? Can be for casuals. Because the term “casual” is not defined by skill of a player but how many hours you play.
That is what I have been saying all along. I quoted blizzard and Ion himself saying that its for people that play few hours. Not specifically for “solo players”. And people that “play few hours” have a name and they are called Casuals.
[insert what you play] - Delves, Raids, M+, PvP, RP, ect…
[insert for how much you play] - a lot (hard-core), a little (casual).
Complete the phrase for me:
I am a [insert how much you play] player that does [insert what you play].
Two different things. Two different categories.
Blizzard said this, and I quote:
" they’re ideal for players who want to experience a meaningful game progression without significant time commitments. "
I am not making “without significant time commitments” up. Its written and I am not moving the goal post.
Exactly. Some type of content is designed for certain players in mind. In particular, if you are a casual and dont play a ton of hours you will find it difficult to progress through certain game-modes (M+ and Raid). You can play those casually, but at a significant disadvantage.
And that is what Delves are for. To cover for the people that dont have the time to invest in other game modes and still feel a significant progression.
And this whole post is a bout people that are NOT casuals (“no lifers” according to you) who play Delves and find themselves with nothing to do after 2 weeks. Which I dont find surprising.
Nice move of the goal post… Now you can be a “casual player” whilst also being a “hardcore player” lol.
Good job Uda!
I know… But the “time commitment” is tied to “progression”… Like come on…
The move of the goal post part, was YOU literally going:
And now you move that goal post to:
“You are not a hardcore player, you are a hardcore RP player… Therefor Delves can still be for casual players”
Now the amount of hours I play all of a sudden doesn’t define whether I am a casual player or not? xD
Move of goal post at its finest!
It’s unbelievable that you have used SO many comments to argue that what defines a casual player is “amount of time used playing the game” and even went on to state that was “literally” what Blizzard had written Delves were for… And now that I mentioned you could RP for tons of hours as lvl 1, you change it to “Then you’re just a hardcore RP-player two different things!”
No. Choose ONE. Casual OR Hardcore. Defined by how much you play. And then choose a game mode.
So if you play 5 minutes a week doing RP you are a Casual RP player. If you play 168h a week doing RP you are a Hard Core RP player. You are not “both”. It depends on how much you play. So you cant be a “casual player” that plays 168h a week playing RP. Thats impossible.
And before you grill me, I gave super extreme numbers such that there is no ambiguity.
So I left it clear enough. Im not moving ANY post, and I have been claiming from the start that the term “casual” is ONLY defined by how much you play, NOT by WHAT you play.
Yeah ! But progression also exists in M+ that requires a LOT of time commitment ! You see now !
So the existence of “progression” is not a defining characteristic. What matters is that before Delves if you did not have the time to invest in M+ and Raids you had ZERO progress, because those are game modes designed for people willing to invest the time into them.
So you could be a “casual” M+ player. You just had no progression if you were.
And that is why Delves cover that gap. They provide the progression you have in M+ and Raids WITH OUT the time commitment !
And people with out time commitment have a name: CASUALS !
Good… So if I RP for 160 hours and do Delves for 30 mins, I am a HARDCORE player that PROGRESSES MEANINGFULLY through Delves… i.e. Blizzard did NOT state that Delves for meant for casual players…
How is this so hard to understand?
Yes? But how is Delves made for casuals if I can RP for 160 hours?? Why do you assume people ONLY want gear? Meaningfull progression is also lvling? You know… Just like they wrote in the intro do Delves?
Aaaah yeah because PVP players had 0 progress… Achievement farmers… Pet battlers… Open world players… Everyone that didn’t M+ or raid ZERO! xD
Blizzard stated: Meaningful progression without much time commitment FACTS.
That does not mean you are a casual, as we literally just established, that you can RP for 160 hours and still progress meaningfully in Delves. I.e. Hardcore players.
Next time, instead of presenting your own feelings or interpretations as facts, just state that you feel Delves are made for casuals. Would solve a lot
Like its baffling that you can say stuff like:
And nothing clocks… That Delves are then an alternative to highly commitment required activities for people that DON’T want to commit hours… That does NOT mean they play the game any less than hardcore players… But Delves now offers them an ALTERNATIVE to progress meaningfully…
How you make the conclusion that “Oh… People don’t want to play 16 hours of M+ or raid… That must mean they only play for 1 hour! Casuals!” is beyond belief…
Why don’t ppl read lol… 2 new delves and more stories to the old ones are coming with the raid patch… meanwhile you get 1 new dungeon in the same patch. They will be new ones in every new major patch when gear is also updated ie the next teir…
You make that sound as if I have something against casuals. I dont. In fact, I had a conversation with Tah in this very post that sais that its not a fixed category. I barely played in the past 2 weeks, so I became a “casual M+ player” for 2 weeks.
And I suffered the consequences of playing a game-mode casually: I only got 1 vault slot and it was not an upgrade. I should have played Delves instead to be honest because for the same time commitment I would have gotten 3 vault slots.
See where im going with this?
If people play the game as much as a hard-core player, then they DONT have issues committing hours to the game. By definition.
Now. If you DONT have the means to play as much as hard-core player, you DO have issues. Well… HAD… until Delves came along.
And that is where my original comment comes from:
If you play Delves for a “hard-core” amount of hours, you clear the whole content in 1 week and run out of stuff to do.
Because its not DESIGNED for people that have “hard-core” level of hours available to play. Its played for people that DO NOT.
And those people have a name: “Casuals”.
And the inverse is also true. If you are a “Casual M+ player” you will suffer the consequences. Because M+ is designed with “hard-core” level of playtime in mind.
So a “hard-core Delver” will suffer the consequences as well. Because Delves are designed with “casual” level of playtime in mind.
No. Because the game mode was not meant for casual players. It was meant for players that want to progress without a lot of time commitment.
I simply corrected your wrong “facts”.
I will repeat again… Time spent in game does not equal progression.
If you want to progress gear wise, but don’t want to play M+ for hours, you can still progress meaningfully in Delves… You know, the thing outdoor players could NOT do before… That does not make them casual players…
You keep assuming that people WANT to Raid or M+ if they play a lot… Some people simply don’t want to play with others or do X amount of keys a week…
Some people want to achievement hunt daily for hours… They would NOT be gear progressing meaningfully without time commitment… Now they can. You see why “meaningful progression” is important in that sentence now?
Again… YOU defined casual / hardcore by amount of HOURS PLAYED and not WHAT… No where in Blizzards statement does it talk about hours playing the game… It only mentions time commitment TO MEANINGFUL PROGRESSION.
