No Warcraft without Christianity

Maybe it is considerable said person took lessons from why it might not be the best call to drop the autistic or spastic remark to a random person on the forum?
People can change their approaches :slight_smile:

Ignoring the baseless accusations about what I’m concerned with, and what I’ve done/not done, given that it’s needlessly petty + pointless, I have (and will) continue to admit that I regret a lot my old posting habits, things I’ve not done in years because I’ve since grown out of it.

You’ve gone a bit nuclear in response to an ultimately very minor call-out: I pointed out something pretty basic, it shouldn’t take much to say “yeah fair play” and leave it at that.

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Chill. People called out being uncomfortable with you dropping that a person was autistic unprompted; it isn’t an attack on you, and you don’t need to get so personal on people. No one’s trying to out-‘woke’ each other.

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I think during times like this we need to remember some Christian values, namely turning the other cheek and forgiving those who wrong us - two deeply Christian ideals that helped form the foundations of the society we have all benefited from. When you wrong another, you wrong yourself.

God bless and goodnight.

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This, people grow from their past and that’s actually a strong feat to have :slight_smile:
The Forums aren’t known to be a great place, I hope one day or another, this might be switched over for it to carry a bit more positivity to it. <3

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I am, actually, autistic. Or at least on the asperger spectrum and was not offended by being called so.
But I won’t use it to ‘excuse’ my posts or opinions either.

I will stand by my opinion, but the points of the OP and others are valid ones.
I just think the presentation is “pretentious” in my eyes, not nuanced, and comes across as needlessly preachy, but I somewhat expected that when I saw the thread title and the poster’s name and could have just not read it.

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That’s a fair take – thought his reply to you was a bit whack, given that what you said seemed pretty reasonable.

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I suppose they could make the books free for people to read online, and the paper copies would remain as they are. But why make it free when people will pay for it?

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It’s pretty sad to see the mantra of ‘don’t reduce people to their mental health diagnoses’ being classed as appealing to a woke audience to be honest. It’s not a difficult or unreasonable request, it’s just kinda commonsense.

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Heck, make them a part of a WoW sub.

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Or here’s the big move.

Don’t put information/events crucial to the overall story & game story in third party things.

Any story that isn’t in the game should be standalone. Books included.

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I’ve always hated that, because I really don’t enjoy reading books. I can read during RP, but reading pages at a time? It doesn’t appeal to me.

Plus it’s cooler (to me at least) to play through these sorts of things in-game than to hear about them second-hand in books :frowning:

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If you know where to look, there are
 online documents


The Warcraft novels aren’t really worth reading imo. The ones I read are pretty bad even by the standards of fantasy novels and fantasy as a genre is not exactly known for being consistently good.

Much better off using reading time to read some actually decent novels, which there are many of, even sticking to fantasy, instead.

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You’re telling me Jaina falling in love with a dragon because he explains to her magic is just math isn’t good fiction?

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Come to think of it, all my favourite WoW novels are just that. The blessed three that I’ve quoted the entirety of over the forums and discord twice over now are all self-contained stories and focus on world building on top of delivering a solid character arc for their respective protagonist.

In The Last Guardian we follow Khadgar’s journey from an otherwise unimpressive apprentice earning the approval of Medivh through his sharp wit and quick intellect into a capable mage in his own right. We explore the dynamic of him and Medivh, showing why he is the perfect apprentice to him. The other candidates were far more powerful and capable - and they all died. Medivh could teach anyone to be a mage, but he couldn’t teach them how to be smart.

Khadgar earns his moments by his own merit through hard work and quick wit, giving him his moments to shine independently of Medivh whose power is, I feel, used in just the right amounts to remind us that he’s the baddest fricker on the planet - but he doesn’t snap his fingers and instantly fix everything, but when Medivh enters the stage you know the gravity of what’s about to happen.

We see Khadgar grow. We see him fail. And ultimately we see it pay off as he succeeds. The Luke Skywalker of mages compared to Jaina’s Rey. Khadgar is the stand in for the average mage who wasn’t born gifted, but earned his power through hard work and numerous setbacks, and we learn how magic works through his eyes as the novel fleshes out the world building behind arcane magic so much so that 19(!) years later, 99% of it stands against the test of time and retcons. The conflict between arcane and fel laid out in the novel is surprisingly accurate and in line with the Chronicle update separating them into opposing forces.

Shadow of the Horde explores Vol’jin’s fall from grace, starting the novel off with him losing his power and rediscovering himself and building himself back up stronger as he was before (spiritually, that is) as he tackles the topic of faith and what it means to be a troll in the Azeroth of today vs the trolls of old who build the first civilisation. It’s a spiritual journey of healing and forgiveness, while fighting for a just and righteous cause, not allowing evil to take root (much in line with the Christian themes this thread is about!)

And Lord of the Clans is also a story of discovering lost heritage as we follow the rise of Thrall through setbacks and failures to ultimately succeed through his trials and hardships and shaping him into the promised leader of orc kind. The orcs in the camps had a self-made prophecy about how one day Orgrim Doomhammer would return to liberate them, but in his stead the prophecy is made manifest through Thrall carrying Doomhammer’s mantle in both name and in the literal sense as he inherits his legacy through the hammer and sets his people free on the path of redemption. Another Christian theme if you want to think about it that way.

Sorry for the essay but those three books convey a genuinely good and nuanced story about character growth and hardship while also acting as treasure troves of world building that I feel is sometimes lost and perhaps not appreciated enough.

With the rest your mileage varies, but I’m personally just combing through them for the lore tidbits :man_shrugging:

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This is the only Warcraft book I own that hasn’t ended up at a charity shop, it’s just an entertaining read even for my friends that don’t care for the games but love fantasy. It’s also just crammed with tons of really interesting and entertaining bits of lore that I’ve pinched for my Human RP - like the runeblades Lothar provides Khadgar and Garona to fight Medivh with, for example.

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Shadows of the Horde is basically mandatory reading for Troll and Panda roleplayers – if it wasn’t an off-game book, that is.

The hell is a wokescold? Is this -another- phrase I need to look up to keep up with the ‘Yoof’ of today?

I think the thing is, (and I fully understand the fact that I am one wordy son of a female canine) that Text based communication is a rubbish way of getting a point across. It is the least effective in fact. Verbal communication, say, over the phone is much more effective, because then people can hear your tone, and whether you are being coldly factual, or jovially sarcastic, even more effective is face to face communication, because then people can not only hear the words you are saying, but also the tone, and more crucially, see the body language when you say something, whether you are smiling when you say it, or your posture as you do.

If you just type “You’re such a (Redacted)” then people will take it seriously, it is simply bald text, without context. If you’re talking over the phone and say "You’re such a (Redacted) then they at least get a sense that you might not mean it so bluntly, and just in a sarcastic manner, if they physically can see you and say “You’re such a (Redacted) then they can also see if you are smiling when you say it, at which point it is less of an insult, and just badinage between mates”.

The reason that is important is that some people, like myself, want to get a point across whilst -also- getting the point across without being argumentative, but in a jovially mocking sort of way, so need to use more words to convey that.

Whilst it is a good attitude to take, Christians have not necessarily been that great at doing that themselves historically, I mean the Crusaders and Templars are one example, the Conquistadors another, and even in more modern times, the Sectarian violence in Northern Ireland. Don’t get me wrong, it is a great ideal, but just not one that people live up to all the time.

Very good point. The Books themselves should need to be purchased originally when released, because, well y’know authors have to make money in order to pay the bills, but after a time, and I don’t pretend to know what timespan it should be, they should be accessible to everyone. Case in point, and WoW related, the 'Paragon’s novella, one of the stories in it, ‘Blood of the Highborne’ has massive amounts of Blood Elf lore in it, starting Pre-Fall, describing the Fall, then Post Fall, and who actually killed Dark’han Drathir, and also the fact that Lor’themar and Liadrin’s relationship was quite close. Now I have read it, but only in German, because it was never originally released in English. Why was that? It is missing a massive segment of the playerbase. I mean, my German is pretty darned good, but I am sure I missed some elements of the story. I don’t even know if there -is- an English version of it online yet, but there -Should- be, because it is defining the Pivotal moment that led to the High Elves becoming Blood Elves. That’s a massive thing.

It is the same with films
After a while when the people involved have made their money (as they rightly should) you can kind of watch them on Youtube and stuff.

Oh, and Shadows of the Horde was pretty good. It really gave some depth to Vol’jin as a character, which makes him sound pretty damned cool, who knew he was a hit with the ladies, even Zandalari ones, which just makes his death in Legion even more “Nuuuuuuu!”. ‘Illidan’ is actually pretty good, but then it is William King, the guy has been writing for what, 30 years now? Mostly for Games Workshop. I think ‘Illidan’ works because it is not told from the point of view from that monologuing smug numpty, but described the process of a Kaldorei becoming a Demon Hunter, how horrible it is, how estranged from ‘normal’ society they are (The scene of Vandel hiding in bushes so he could drink the dregs of wine from Blood Elf revellers was poignant as heck), the Nathrezim Homeworld, and lots more. It did something I thought impossible. It actually made me think, “Y’know, Demon Hunters are pretty cool if -that- is how they are.”

morse code bruh