I read through this whole thread and never saw you answer Flexboss about why you do play Classic (you poped Evasion a couple of times tho), only why LFD would make your life easier when you want a group on demand.
Its also interesting to see that many people that are argumenting for RFD have been spending their dungeons not writing a thing apart from âinvâ, âgogoâ and âggâ and now generalize this on everybody.
I myself do not share these experiences, but have had alot of good and fun social interactions during dungeons, that later helped me both continue to run them and also form new groups.
You can only take out from the pillow what you put in, and if nothing was ever put in then RFD would obviously not change that for you. It would be just as un-social as one choose to make his/hers Classic experience.
Because it was offtopic and i mentinoed in () i prefer class identity better in Vanilla / TBC, i prefer simplier raids, slower progression etc.
As for Your further rant, good for You, I am glad You had great experiences with pug dungeons, mine are a bit different, its on a rare occasion there are good laughs and talks, ppl just want to do dung, get their badges and be done with it. All this talks about inclusivity in this game and we put aside introverts and ppl who donât neccessarily seek for social experience, but to do the classic content not hassle through the infinitie âLFM tankâ social experience.
I will handle my ways in this game, will play it by the rules, slap on tank offspec âLFM Gundrak HCâ and invite only casters to my group :). I will live, but will it make game better, I doubt.
Exactly! I just want to add something. Because Iâve noticed how strong the feelings against the RDF are for the people that comment against it here, I think there will still be a pool of players that avoid to use the RDF at all cost. Therefore people will find players to do dungeons the regular way and will even be able to form guilds where people avoid the RDF but do dungeons the old fashioned way.
Ah I see, so you are comparing apples with pears just to form an argument.
First of all I donât know if people complained about the RDF in retail for years. So I guess I just have to take your word for it here, even though I doubt it.
So if I understand you correctly, youâve played Retail over the last years? because how else would you be able to tell?
Second the RDF in Retail doesnât solve an purpose anymore, because of how Mythic+ works. In an environment where you need to run dungeons fast or you will be punished, you just canât let people run with randomly assembled groups. Because a bad group setup or bad players can screw up your Mythic+ rating.
So itâs rather a technical reason, that the RDF isnât relevant in retail anymore, than because people didnât like it.
And in WotLK there wonât be Mythic+, so there wonât be a reason to speed run dungeons. You will be fine with any setup.
Thatâs just your opinion. My opinion is, that not having the RDF feels so much like wasting money, because I am not able to play the game I pay for.
No we are asking you to do is just respect, that the majority wants the RDF. Before Blizzardâs announcement everybody will have assumed that the RDF will be in the game and Iâve never seen anybody complain about it or post on the forums about it.
So obviously people didnât have a big problem with it. Now that Blizzard announced there wonât be an RDF in WotLK Classic, the massive outcry shows, that there are more people, that want there RDF, than there are people, that donât want it.
Your example is off, because you ignore, that there was a time, where everybody just assumed WotLK Classic will have the RDF at some point. And they didnât complain back then.
At the time when they assumed RDF will be part of WotLK, they were on the bus and nobody said anything.
You are obviously on the bus and say no. Which shouldnât be possible in your example. It would be possible if you assume, you know a person that wants on the bus but isnât yet. So you could call the person to get on the bus and then everybody would say yes.
You canât make a connection between the place and the question like this. Translated to WoW, it would be like asking on the forum of everybody is on the forum. This doesnât say anything about the RDF at all. Because itâs a prerequisite to be in the place to answer the question. And you canât really answer with no, unless you know another person, that ultimately also just wants to get to the place to answer with yes.
Since you didnât bother to explain why, I will just say I refuted those points already, without explaining how.
Also if you remove cross realm the RDF will become next to useless on low pop servers. You still would have a very small pool and wild need to hope, that one of the 3 tanks, still running dungeons, would be on as the same time as you and actually do dungeons at that time.
At least you would be guaranteed a dungeon run after 4 hours of queue. Which is a minor improvement over what we have now. But the game would still be unplayable.
And removing teleports would make the RDF useless for leveling. Because nobody will want to join an ZF run while questing in the hinterlands. The zones in the levels 1-60 are to far spread out and without teleportation people wonât do that dungeons.
A few years ago, when Blizzard talked about âClassicâ for the first time, they were specifically talking about vanilla. They werent thinking ahead. Wotlk is vastly different. That âclassic wowâ has to be âvanilla design/feelingâ in every future expansion is neither expected, nor ever accomplishable. Vanilla and wotlk have vastly different design ideas. In wotlk dungeons are short, because they are meant to not fill a whole evening, but to be spammed by design. In pve all classes became more similar, because it was about âbring the player, not the classâ, so groups can be formed faster and less players get excluded. Dual specialization supported this, while vanilla was more about class/spec fantasy. The raid hardmodes were introduced, to make the content accessible for casuals but still somewhat challenging for more committed players. Thats one of the reasons why wotlk had the peak of player numbers back in the day and until today on private servers: it was fun to play for more players than ever.
Wotlk was about inclusion of players with less time or that were focusing on gameplay more. RDF, as a tool, supported it, but the whole game isnt fit for a vanilla fan by design. Its about going fast, less time to talk, its more about playing the game instead of constant downtimes to chat. Not adding one feature wont change that vanilla players wont enjoy a wotlk expansion as much as they would any vanilla server. So why would I, as a Blizzard developer think, that not implementing one feature, that suits the design of the expansion perfectly, is not fit for the expansion? Must be, because they listened to the vanilla fans first, which made sense back when vanilla was made, but now they cannot understand that there are other players with different âfavorite expansionsâ, too, since they have been detached from their community for many years now. I know I want RDF in wotlk, but Blizzard thinks I dont. A classic.
Iâd like to contest this. I am an introvert. MMORPGs are by their very nature social spaces. It is what defined the early MMORPGs; when the first MMORPGs came out social media as we know it today did not exist.
Introvert =/= anti-social.
As an introvert I despise newer MMORPGs because there is rarely any reason to communicate. Without that reason it can be very hard to even get a conversation going. In Classic (and early WoW) youâd often start a conversation by talking about something pertaining to the game. It was an excellent ice-breaker. If you felt no personal chemistry with the other person then the social encounter did not have to last longer than the current in-game objective. And if you had solid personal chemistry there was a chance you had encountered a budding friendship.
As an introvert I much prefer the social nature of Classic than Retail.
I will say it againâŚNOONE BLOCKS U FROM STARTING A CONVERSATION WITH THE RDFâŚI did it many times on retail. Its a personal choice. Thats why I say its COMMUNITY fault that it ended like this, ppl changed. RDF is not a reason for it, RDF only optimizes the group assemble. Its just a tool, give person a knife, he can cut the cucumber or cut someones arm.
I could agree to the argument cross-realm destroyed realm aspectsâŚthen do realm only RDF and have a system to merge low pop servers into medium servers.
Also You are one exmaple of the introvert, there are dozens of others that have problems with breaking the ice.
I consider myself extrovert but I dont start conversation with everyone all the time, but I also am a single unique example. There are many others that are hyperactive in that aspect :).
Yet they have specifically said there will be no RDF and doubled down on the social aspect and officially made it the main pillar of the whole design phisolophy for Wotlk Classic.
And this is because they dont know what wotlk is about and they made the wrong decision, as they already did again and again. Only Blizzard can think that not adding one feature will change the game design into a whole different experience. On the other hand Blizzard removes arena teams, that form bonds between players that often last for years. They are not consistent. That a vanilla fan would be happy about the removal of anything, thats not vanilla, is understandable.
My, why I never thought of that. I guess youâre right. The game design has no impact whatsoever on how players behave. The people playing Classic behave exactly the same way as those who play Retail. The game design makes no difference.
Also, the game sure is inconvenient. Why should I have to play the game to get stuff, why canât I just get stuff? My casual guild has not even managed to get me through T5. I want SWP gear! Itâs so inconvenient getting there, though, might as well just buy gold and join a GDKP run. And you know what? World PvP is dead! Or it is annoying. Why should I allow the alliance to attack me? Iâll just go to a server where there is no alliance. Much more convenient! But wait, what is this?! Tanks in LFG are abusing the importance of their roles in order to reserve items?! How dare they!! They should not be able to do that! Give me a tool that automates the process for me so that those scoundrels canât do that anymore. Because the tool is inclusive and only good and benefit everyone (but most importantly, it will benefit me).
But you do realize that RDF was added along with ICC, at the end of Wotlk, right? So we a long way away from when you can claim they have taken anything away.
Yeah these social dynamics and tiny bit of effort needed to run dungeons will sure destroy Wotlk. An expansion that didnât even have said feature until the last phase.
If I could be bothered, which I canât, Iâd link you back to this post when we are 6 weeks into Wrath and this forum is full of just threads about how you simply canât get a dungeon run at all.
I bet they will add RDF well before ICC, together with faction change, right about time when 70 boost sales start to peter out.
I personally wonât care, I expect to be in full raid gear by the end of month 1 and post myself in the new tool as mage with near max gear score in comment for hc daily. I bet I will get an invite before Iâm done with mah dailies. And just to prove my point, I solemnly swear to not say a single word during it. Not. One.
World pvp is dead, why not removing flying mounts, open a pandora box and You will end with an abomination not a game u used to remember. The arguments against RDF are from the get go invalid, because RDF does nto have any impact over social aspects of the game, because ITS A PLAYER CHOICE to be social interactive or not, If You throw 2022 gamer into 2004 era, he will optimize the crap out of it and no social aspects You nostaliga sniffers remember, would be present.
Times changed, players changed.
I will gladly see this crapshow spectacle as it unfolds and laugh under my nose thinking âdidnt i say it?â
Enjoy âYourâ game my friend, throw out all the other gamers to the junk.
I disagree and I have said it alot of times. At some point people werent even sure we would get anything past Vanilla, so saying that a majority of people have been hanging on for Classic to become Retail is wrong - and if they have, why would they have wanted Classic to start with?
Like mentioned, I dont want to play âRoad to Retailâ WoW or âReplayâ WoW. I want to play a WoW that is based on the design pillars of Vanilla (and all of that which made that experience great), which also seem to be the take of Blizzard according to their âdesign pillarsâ. I do however accept that not everybody agrees with my view on this.
But based on the forums these last couple of days (including the Transmog-thread), I wonder what features we are left with that we didnt already have when we as a community asked for Classic? What was it we wanted to come back, and why are we walking down the very same path again if we werent happy with the destination the last time around?
As a tank, i wont invite plate dps, ill reserve orbs, and in worst cases ill sell my tanking services. All this while im still getting gear for my specc. We saw this exact scenario happen in tbc, and it will also happen in wotlk.
