Arms has always had bleeds, but in this expansion DW is much stronger. It is too strong and makes our damage back-loaded. In wotlk, cataclysm and mop when warrior used bladestorm did you stay still? It actually killed if you didnt run away. Now opponent can /laugh in your face when bladestorming. It is not fun when only meaning in your abilitys is to refresh DW.
Edit. If i want bursty damage, i would not play arms. Other classes have higher burst.
Yeah bleeds are stronger, but itâs not the only expansion where bleeds were a significant part of the damage, and itâs not the only expansion where general abilities werenât massive hitters. The opposite was WOD where Execute was literally a nuclear bomb and the whole spec was broken as none of the other spells did any damage due to mastery. Arms was still strong but the design was a mess in WOD, at least in BFA the spec works and functions as a whole unit.
And every expansion people always whining over something about Arms even when itâs strong, like right now. Itâs like pick your battles, if youâre complaining non stop even when the spec is strong it will always go on deaf ears. People look at the forums and see âoh yeah Warriors always crying, even when they are topâ⌠And itâs so true.
Blizz change direction every expansion, you canât fight it⌠BFA was a bleed expansion, SL will be different like every expansion has been different.
Ofc ppl whine if they are not happy. First season was nice, but as a whole this expansion did well on making bleed boring.
From all wow expansions, this is the only one that i feel warrior is bad. It is not bad in damage, but making that damage on passive bleed is not rewarding.
When execute is called execute, it should hit like truck. Now at best you need to press hit 5+ times when at same time other classes hits like a truck with self healing+better defensives. It is not suprise ppl are not happy
People are never happy, people on these forums have been whining really badly while Warrior was the top spec in the game time and time again, for years. Right now itâs arguably the top spec in the game in PVE and very strong in PVP.
I mean Warrior is objectively not bad, maybe you donât like the style it deals damage and thatâs fine but it still deals a lot of damage. You wanna do M+, Visions, Mythic Raiding, world quests, soloing old raids, BGâs, Arena⌠You can do it all as Arms, and in most of those you can do it better than Fury, which is also really strong, much like Prot which is also really strong.
Only a small part of the playerbase does PVP, and I feel like this thread is mostly PVPâers talking only PVP. If youâre complaining because you lack success in PVP the only problem is looking at you in the mirror. if youâre going to whine about Arms performance now, youâre the kinda player who will whine every patch no matter the state of Warriors, just whining over small grievances.
Was BFA Arms the best design? Maybe not, but it wasnât the worst either, and itâs certainly not weak as a spec, itâs hilariously strong.
âIt wasnât always good so i donât understand why people care if itâs bad nowâ⌠great logic.
I donât know how itâs so hard to understand that this is not about being a good spec or not. Itâs about how the spec feels to play.
Yes, it also wasnât bad in WoD, and thatâs the expansion when Asmongold made a video about how to play arms with a 3 button controller, because it wouldâve been possible. Yeah, real fun.
But the spec feels great to play, it functions really well, everything works and flows⌠It just has the damage loaded into deep wounds rather than MS, but the damage from these abilities still exists.
Also When Asmon made that video (why are we talking about him?) it was during the WOD beta before Arms was changed again, I remember it. Arms still took skill to play well in WOD, evident by the gulf in bad players vs good players on performance, it was just broken in design because the mastery only scaled CS, MS and Execute, meaning all other abilities got progressively worse as the expansion went on.
Itâs fine to not like Arms now, whatever. But people are posting as if Arms isnât good, when itâs hilariously strong. Also, itâs fine to not like the style of dealing damage, but the spec works very well as a concept, everything flows and synergises well, itâs a very functional spec that I think is very fun and engaging to play, probably the best spec in BFA right now.
Maybe that says a bad thing about BFA more than anything, but Arms is by far not a bad spec, it ainât perfect and itâs not the best Arms⌠But hell you all whining that your overpowered spec delivers its damage in one way instead of another while trying to also pretend the spec isnât ridiculously strong.
By all means say âI donât like bleed heavy specâ⌠But lets not also cry as if it doesnât function well or as if itâs weak.
It is minority of warrior players that says it feels good to play. Not many days ago even blizzard confirmed the same thing when they changed mastery. Yes you can do all the things you said as arms, but with freshly dinged players they are mostly forced to play fury. Arms defensives are worst and it can get whipped by mobs if you pull 1-2 too many. You can do solo content bg, but without pocket healer opponent with small brains can whip arms. We have not asked for more damage for warriors. We have only asked nerf deep wounds damage and move it back to our actual abilitys. When spec has no self healing and very bad defensive abilitys, should it be more aggressive and do front-loaded damage? Now that damage comes few seconds behind becouse of deep wounds. Other classes and specs has that front-loaded damage while they have self healing and better defensives.
Yeah, i guess thatâs why only 2.5% of the players play it, while almost twice as many players play fury. It must be really fun to play⌠no, itâs not. The last time arms was fun to play was in Tomb of Sargeras when it was a hard hitting spec, when most warriors gladly switched from fury to play it.
It is in a good place right now when it comes to damage, yes, and most warriors still donât switch to it because it doesnât even come close to fury in terms of gameplay. Warrior is not supposed to be a bleed spec, we have feral druid for that, thatâs why the mastery is getting changed at least.
Fury has always been more popular than Arms outside of PVP, and PVP is probably the least popular right now that itâs ever been. Given that Fury is also extremely strong, has hilarious self healing and is much easier to play itâs no surprise that it remains more popular.
Itâs a fact that Arms is strong, itâs also a fact that the design synergises and flows well when played properly⌠When we get into the subjective is whether you like the design and whether you like the vehicle for damage.
I think Fury is for people who just like slamming their face on the keyboard, because itâs super simplistic and you canât really go wrong, so bad players will do better. Fury really is a good design, but mainly from the perspective that itâs strong in all areas and is easy to play well.
Refreshing deep wounds does not take much proper gameplay. Even when arms is strong people dont play it. If playstyle were different there would be more arms warriors. Is it too much to ask for spec to be fun to play? Now it is boring and blizzard them self admitted it when new mastery change were announced.
âWe heard your feedback that Mastery: deep wounds overwhelming contribution to the damage breakdown felt unrewarding, and we agree.â
Those are the words from bluepost. Search and read for yourself. Why do you still keep defending this boring mastery even when bluepost admits it is not good design?
Output is what you read on your details, and as you stated the thing that annoyied you.
Playstyle is talents and rotational changes.
But we have to go all around this again because you clearly stated:
Its ok, dont rush replying.
I will answer back in a few days or so.
Think a good answer, you have all the time in the world
Where am I defending the mastery? Iâm defending Arms as a spec. This thread is just a place for people to circle-jerk in an echo chamber where the only ones participating are the ones with an issue, and a lot of you are whining for reasons that are not based on reality.
You say Arms isnât popular? Did you know that out of 24 DPS specs in this game, Arms is the 9th most popular spec at both Mythic and Heroic raiding? A hell of a lot of players are playing Arms and a lot of raid teams use them, they are very popular. If mastery was replaced and the gameplay of the spec remained exactly the same but the damage was redistributed does the spec suddenly become good in your eyes?
The worst thing is people trying to also pretend that the spec is weak and does low damage.
Arms is weak if you compare its defence with other dps specs, and when did we say it does low damage? Read again what blizzard them self said about mastery deep wounds. Deep wounds damage is the problem, and everyone of us has said it is too high. It makes difference of how spec feels if that passive bleed damage comes from actual abilitys.
No no you donât get to say âoh compare this with thisâ⌠You compare how it performs, itâs one of the top 5 dps specs in the game in any scenario, and any gladiator level player going for gladiator will get gladiator as ArmsâŚ
By any measure of real world performance the spec is strong. Sitting there saying âcompare this with thisâ is like turning up to a motor race and winning and then saying your windscreen wipers are weak compared to the competition, as if thatâs a distraction from the fact that youâre the dominant force.
And Iâm not saying Arms mastery is the best, but thatâs neither here nor there since BFA is nearly over, what are you even achieving by whining about it? If we are looking at the spec I think it works really well, easily one of the best specs in BFA to play, certainly more engaging and with a higher skill cap than many.
I can compare arms performance defensive abilitys to other specs if i want and they are weak. Skillcap today to play a spec well is low for all classes. Open internet, read basic guide and rest is learning.
With you i can loan Dead or Alive lyrics: You spin me right round, baby
Right round like a record, baby
Right round round round.
Last time: damage=fine, deep wounds doing all of our damage = no. Arms defensive abilitys=weak.
Now i just leave when this takes you nowhere.
Maybe I win the race, but my windscreen wipers so badâŚ
You should replace those wipers so it is safer to drive
I donât think thereâs anything to disagree here because obviously your damage output affects your gameplay- I mean, Blizzard even states in their message that they did the change specifically because the damage output made the gameplay of arms very bland. I also gave the firemage example, which is still valid.
If you want to disagree with Blizzardâs own definition, youâll have to take it up with them.
I think you are mixing up two things here in any case: Gameplay vs playstyle. The playstyle of a spec like arms isnât that changed (arms still has same dps abilities and follows roughly the same rotation save for Aoe), but the gameplay is completely different: Instead of now waiting for your damage to tick over 6 seconds, it is now frontloaded from the get-go, which gives you those nice meaty hits people asked for. Playstyle ofc is still part of gameplay so thatâs there still.
Also the comment you quote me on isnât relevant anymore since you agreed with me about the change being just for the feel of the spec- So the ground of arguing til ad-infinitum isnât relevant anymore since weâre agreed on the change.
I will agree with you on this though I have a feeling that you have another view.
Arms is broken as it has none of the things that any other spec does.
The Mastery is a part of the spec. If you defend Arms as a spec then you implicitly also defend the Mastery, that is to say, the Deep Wounds mechanic.
Do you even understand the context? Seems like you just take single instances without understanding them and point at them and say, âSEE!?â
Arms is playable right now because of all the levels of borrowed power to even work. You need Memory of Lucid Dreams as main, you need 3*ToM, you need massive amounts of Expedient to get the around 60% Haste baseline for Arms to even work.
Most other specs have their baseline gameplay improved with these borrowed powers. Arms needs them to work at all in the first place. And all those levels of borrowed power are gone in SL. Meaning that Arms is largely back to bed bad as all the things it lacks compared to other specs really show in how faulty the spec is.
Just gonna highlight this as well- The age old argument is that âWell arms is op with a healerâ. But that goes for literally every single dps in the game! You shouldnât need a healer to feel complete.
Equally, if Blizzard is hell-bent on balancing the game around mobility and sustainability, every single class should have some presence in each.
Nobodyâs asking for arms to be as good at self healing as a DK is (or shaman, or druid, or monk), but having a reliable healing cd (e.g. old enraged regeneration) wouldnât make the spec Op or divert from itâs fantasy, it would make it fit to the current game philosophy.