Dude what the hell has this topic become, ive already ignored kungfu guy, but can some1 pls bann him? Ty
Now on topic, its silly that Arms warrior was even more fun when big basic attack crits destroyed ppl, 10 more years ago then this bleed mess we play now
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Yeah you donât need to state the percentiles- Exactly as I said.
Your argument was that you font think if a spec is functional, it equals to it being a good class, therefore no changes are needed and anybody who does so is a whiner failing to adapt.
Arms in Legion was perfectly functional. Nobody said that it was better, worse or same in performance.that wasnât the dispute.
The dispute was whether arms was viable or not- And seeing as you agreed that you can make ANY class and spec work and all of them are viable, therefore asking for changes to them is whining.
Yet here you are, praising Blizz for the change that, according to yourself, was not needed because arms was functioning already. So you support the very thing you blame us for.
OK so you admit the stats are the true ones because they are from WLOGS, shown on the official newssite of WoW.
Thatâs another admission from you.
Iâll expand on that. The entire spec feels wrong. The means of generating resources is archaic, itâs the only spec left in the game that produces its resources completely passive and arbitrary, no other spec in the game does this. The damage distribution is wrong due to the presence of CS/Wb, a core function of the spec relies on a random mechanic and thereâs no âbad luckâ protection to ensure that itâll eventually proc. Itâs an extremely unlikely event and itâs fully possible that you can go 30 minutes without seeing a single Tactician proc.
The entire Spec needs a deep rework instead of just the Mastery.
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I donât mind no active generation of ressource, I am used to it tbh. It has been that way since vanilla.
Tbh, I quite like the gameplay rotation of using overpower to boost MS damage. I think it was fine in the very beginning of BFA when you could play dreadnaught and executioner precision to do a big burst damage if the stars aligned.
I donât think the core of Arms is bad atm. Just that we donât have any control over our damage since whatever we are speccing (Mastery, Hast or crit) Deep wounds will make up for most of our damage.
Many things that âwere that way since Vanilla,â has been changed for the better.
Our Rage-generation is something that we have no control over. Youâre essentially only playing in the time after your allowance have been paid out to you. You have no control over the amount and the payer, for some arbitrary reason, can decide you should have a higher pay-out because. The only time you actively engage with the game between these points are if Tactician procs.
This lack of control runs counter to every scientific theory that talks about creating engagement. In my field, this is the core when doing anything that will have an effect on other people and is something called the Client-Centred Approach. You want people to feel that they have involvement in the outcome.
If they can only handle making a choice out of two options then you give them two options based on their personality and then let them decide. This feeling that they have an active role creates a sense of engagement in them making them grow more involved in the process and more motivated to do it.
In the case of Rage-generation, you have no control which over time will lead to loss of sense of engagement, involvement, and motivation.
And in the case of Dreadnought, the lacking of it is due to two things.
- The trigger Overpower is finicky due to the lack of âbad luckâ protection on Tactician.
- Anger Management is an absolute Talent that can only exist in the states of being too good or being too bad. Thereâs no middle ground.
AM itâs so poorly designed that its presence retroactively makes Warbreaker and In For the Kill worse than they should be. If you combine those two with Dreadnought or Ravager youâll see a drop in their performance because their performance have been set based on them being combined with AM.
I agree, they should remove this talent alltogether. and reduce the CD of bladestorm and CS by 5 or 10 sec
No, CS should be removed as well. We did fine without it before and weâll do fine without it in the future. All that it is is a burst on demand that adds nothing to our gameplay experience. Instead of a payoff in something huge it feels like a necessary step so that we get payoff at all.
When you said that Arms have had passive Rage-generation only since Vanilla that was a faulty argument. Back in WotLK MS generated 30 Rage instead of costinng 30 Rage and Arms was a lot more fluid back then.
24 specs in your pic.
Arms ranks 20th and that is functional? No, that is problematic and now it ranks 2nd that is godlike.
No matter what you say, you are trying to ruin the 2nd best spec ingame atm with excuses âI DONT LIKE ITâ while you dont play it. You came in the this thread and clearly stated your issues about our last conversation so stop pretending you care about arms.
That above says it all, so take your arms warrior hate elsewhere.
You yourself agreed earlier, and I quote:
You yourself said that you can play the game in high tier with any of the classes and specs. Therefore, as was your proposition from the start, whatever whining people give about classes is ad-hoc off the roof instantly invalid because if they just tried harder they would somehow be happier.
Also, as said, the damage differences between top and bottom dps in antorus were very small compared to Nyâalotha, as the graph shows. So again, even if you did claim that the change was needed (it wasnât), it still wouldnât work.
And even if you did die on the hill that Blizzard doesnât listen to people and change perfectly functioning specs, explain why did firemages, the current r.1 class, receive the changes they wanted regarding bracers being baked into their baseline kit?
It doesnât stop on one example. I can point out multiple case examples of the very thing you so vehemently deny existing having happened.
a) The thread is literally called âArms mastery sucksâ so if you are surprised people are voicing their distaste with the mastery being a thing I donât know what were you expecting. Do you walk into a restaurant and be surprised they sell actually food there instead of tires lol?
b) I do play the class, just not in the high level youâd like me to play it in. You donât get to dictate or tell anybody how they should play the game or set up a rank they must reach in order to qualify. Further, you still havenât shown why classâs function in high m+ or raid environment mean that the class is also in a good state. You still havenât done that. Thereâs been multiple classes that were arguably busted in terms of their performance yet people complained about them all the same, despite playing a solid spec. Discipline priest in Wotlk, Fire mage in BFA, FDK in Legion, and more. You say it isnât warranted yet itâs happened more than a dozen times and it keeps happening so where are you drawing the conclusion that people simply disliking the function of a class ability isnât valid enough to change the function of a class? Because it has happened, is happening as we speak (e.g. Affli warlocks, fire mages), and will keep happening.
c) I didnât bring up our last conversation. You did. You brought up your issues, I responded to them. Donât try to roll your own blame on me. If you canât take it, as you didnât last time, the door is that way. Nobody is forcing you to stay.
I donât hate arms. None of the other people here do either. I doubt you hate it either, in fact I think you genuinely care for it. But you are entrenched in this mindset that the performance of a spec in raids is the only and the sole metric by which you judge whether the class is in a good state or not- When, historically, this is not the case. And isnât even now, as we speak. Worse, you tell everybody who disagrees with you that they are just playing the game wrong- As if you could, with a straight face, tell somebody that what they find enjoyable and what they dislike is invalid.
I mean I get your point too. You play the game at high level and performance is very important to you. So obviously the performance of a class weighs very much for you- You yourself said you swapped out of monk because itâs damage is crap, despite saying you love how it plays. I think that sucks and probably nobody disagrees WW could use a small buff in PVE damage (pvp they are more than fine).
For a lot of people who donât play it as high as you do, the feel of the spec is more important than the ± 1/2% performance. If you tried to put yourselves in those peopleâs boots, maybe you could see their point as well.
Your and my main argument is whether a classâs performance = Class is good.
I say it isnât for the obvious reasons. You havenât provided many, other than the number of people playing the game at x level, which turns out not to be the case when even very high level players of supposedly good doing classes like Ellipsis voice out their concerns for a class.
I said if you say so, i didnt check logs. THen i checked logs.
It was bottom tier, now its god tier.
Im not playing higher tier, im a casual player and also my spec works with mastery like arms and DOES WONDERS.
I love it when my mastery is 40%+ of my output. It makes my spec viable.
Arms Legion was not viable.
No, this isnât related to that. You yourself earlier agreed that literally every single class and spec is viable for mythic+ and mythic nyalotha. So it doesnât matter even if arms was improved or not- You can just adapt and overcome, as you yourself say.
Even if you consider yourself a casual player (despite having spent the entire thread berating the LFR playerbase, which, by the way, are casual players too), nobodyâs telling you are wrong to like arms mastery as it is now. I have also met people who like it as it is. Good for them.
Not all of us like it however, and thatâs what the thread exists for. Everybody was giving their input and saying the reasons they dislike the mastery- You jumped in and started telling that âaha because it performs well in x type of content, therefore your complaint is invalid.â
I donât take issue with you liking arms mastery as it is now. Thatâs your opinion and thats fine. I take issue with you telling others that their opinion is invalid simply because you just arbitrarily decide that apparently, from this day forward, performance is the only valid metric to use to valid whether a class is doing well or good.
I mean I have met shadow priests that do not want voidform gone either, yet the vast majority in the feedback want it gone. Does that mean that simply because thereâs some people liking the mechanic that currently exists, all the discussion about wanting voidform changed by everybody else should be gone?
Good for you. I do not like that 40%, or more, of my damage comes from my mastery. Back in the day (pre-legion), most of my damage came from my actual abilities. rather than bleeds. If I wanted to play a bleed class, Iâd roll a feral druid. Alas, here we are.
Well it objectively was, because it wasplayed in m+ and raids. Might not have been the top dog, but the damage difference was neglicable enough to make them perfectly valid to raid with- And many people did, as the logs clearly show.
As I said:
It doesnt matter if Arms was 20th dps like legion instead of 2nd top tier dps it is now?
I mean you have to be trolling now, there is absolutely 0 sense on what youre saying. A bad spec, went to the best. Simple.
I am a casual player, you are not a player though. Just a forum whiner about nothing
No, it does not. Your argument, as you said yourself, was that people just need to adapt and overcome stuff. And clearly, Arms was played in Legion last tier- Regardless of whether you picture it being viable or not, because it was by your very own definition.
Yet, a perfectly viable spec was changed to function based on the feedback people gave. People didnât like the RNG nature of arms mastery. People didnât like the window of opportunity either- So they tried with the bleed mastery. Turns out it performs better, but people still complain about it because as it turns out, itâs not a very fun mastery.
And again, even if you are hell-bent arguing that arms was 100% changed just because of the damage, how do you explain discipline changes coming from wotlk? Or fire mage changes in the alpha? Or FDK changes in Legion? All of them were made to well performing specs, because the playerbase disliked them.
I play the game even as we speak, doing dailies for my weekly vision runs. I play the game, same as you, but with different priorities. That does not make mine or anybody elses views wrong.
I mean, you yourself put so much emphasis on playing the game, yet I, a supposedly non-player (apparently) have managed to keep you out of the game for several hours on total.
Youâve went from blaming casual player base to identifying as one yourself to saying class doesnât matter to saying it does. Youâre a walking contradiction if there ever was one.
Adapt and overcome the spec changes.
Not 19 ppl in the raid to adapt and overcome 1 low output dps.
You need an intellect buff, IRL.
No, you are just unable to understand because you barely play the game thats all.
When you dont know what the main and official sourse of logs is or when you think that 19 ppl must adapt to 1 bad dps spec instead of the player swapping spec⊠Yes you are not able to understand.
People did do mythic antorus on Raid so your point doesnât matter. The spec was perfectly viable, as you yourself agreed, so therefore those people had to just adapt. Yet here you are, praising the change when it is convenient for you.
I didnât make the dumb argument that âHaha just adapt and overcomeâ, you did. You got only yourself to blame. If you had any intellect youâd seen the very obvious contradiction coming up.
Ah, so now Iâve went from âNot playing the gameâ to âbarely playing the game at allâ, look at that.
As I said, a walking contradiction. You shift your point as quickly as you swap classes.
You still canât read? The source says, very clearly, that the data is from warcraftlogs. I take their data over you because the other is a reliable wow news site, youâre a random hobo over the internet.
They donât need to adapt and didnât need to adapt. Arms dealt perfectly viable damage, as the logs show. Plenty of arms warriors completed Antorus Mythic. Unless you argue every single one of them were boosted?
No, you are not.
There is more to this game than raw performance numbers. If you canât grasp that then you canât be helped.
It was trash, fury was the top tier warrior spec then.
No matter what you say, i know you have to argue because you have your mental problems from our last conversation, but that does not change the facts even you posted.
Its not dumb, its what you cant realize and what i explained you above.
So what? It was viable. People did do raids with it perfectly fine.
True. It doesnât change the facts. And the fact is that arms was perfectly viable back then.
It is dumb. Because in truth the statement opens up the fact that you should adapt and overcome any issue there is with a class. That is the mentality.
You didnât say âAdapt and overcome, but if a class is doing less damage than others, leave the spec and/or complainâ.
You said âAdapt and overcome.â
Those are not the same thing. The former says âLmao doesnât matter what you think, just adapt and stop cryingâ.
The latter states that the reason why you disregard the complaints is if the class is not performing at an x level.
Being carried is not viability.
That was an awful spec turned to best.
Arguing about the obvious will not make you outlast or whatever was your teenage nerdrage theories, you just make yourself look what i already said LFR hero forum whiner.
Ok so EVERY single arms that did Antorus was boosted? LOL
t guy who just said hundreds of thousands of people far better than him got boosted.
The only one looking like a whiner now is the one saying that people that were better than himself were being boosted, despite doing the content on arms.
Carried by higher output is not boosted. But your lack of intellect has to twist words or your mental problems regarding our last conv had to? I vote both.
~https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/17#class=Warrior&spec=Arms&boss=2092&page=8~
761 worldwide arms warriors on argus mythic then.
1458 on Nzoth mythic now.
That is what i call an improvement by almost 100%
Yet you dont play it but have to whine about it.
Facts talk, your trash walk 