tbh. If they’d have announced that the talents and skills would be those from the BC-pre patch… crusader Strike and all that… I’d main a ret and nothing else at all. Loved that episode of skills. Worked so well up to sunwell…
No. Ret Paladin is not good DPS . Just play a warrior if you want to do good DPS & 1 shot people with a pocket healer 
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People like you claim this bs all the time but at the end of the day you look at the logs and you realise that 99%of paladins are forced into healing
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Esfand* never played vanilla he played pservers and was in a shiy guild and within that guild he performed abysmally, barely beating offtanks
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As the OP, I was more asking about the 1-60 journey and NOT so much about raiding at 60 with BiS gear.
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Thats just not true though. You can look up his logs yourself. He’s also playing AP Ret which performs quite a bit below Spellret.
Also this is kind of a self fulfilling prophecy. Nobody takes Rets to raids, because no Rets have raidlogs. So we wont give them a chance to actually get those raid logs. And on and on it goes.
There’s a small handful of Rets that perform quite alright on the logs. The problem is they are few and far between, and the majority of Rets you see on logs are those full Lightforge Arcanite Reaper Retpaladins that are stuck in guilds that cannot kill Ragnaros. People that actually know what they are doing do pull decent numbers, but theres just so few of them.
Looked at log from esfand on 4/30/2018 for bwl, almost 90min raid on boss + trash he is at 85.8dps an offtank above him called pk at 93 dps and an ot below him at 70 dps not sure if can post links here. And no he did not heal and yes he was present during the entire raid. Top dps are at 294
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I would say a Ret Paladin is far more useful in a 5 man than a raid. In a raid any utility they provide can be matched by Holy Paladins which raids are going to favour. However in a 5 man or UBRS they provide buffs which are a great help to the group and a rez which can be useful, especially if you have a druid healer.
If things start going badly a Ret Paladin can off heal/tank, save a healer with BoP, prevent a wipe with Divine Intervention etc
Ret Paladins are very underrated, but to be useful you need to use all of your utility and not just rely on DPS.
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I would never take ret paladin to group or raid at 60. Same with dps shamans and druids.
Don’t care if it casual or HC but people asking others to carry them is just pathetic.
Do your part and be actual use. Roll holy.
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I think Holyfrog wupped you quite enough, so all I’ll say is this: Forcing a class into a certain spec doesn’t mean the other specs are bad. It means that the one spec is so extremely amazing that everybody wants that class using that spec.
Of course you wouldn’t - you don’t know anything about ret and you’re not gonna bother because you just mindlessly follow what the influencers say and turn that into your own “opinion”.
“Roll holy, otherwise you’re useless” kek.
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I would roll a Paladin just to have a mah00sive 2H sword and robes. Wouldn’t even play it; just leave it there to look at drools
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Reckoning is a deep Protection talent, Reckoning spec isn’t Retribution so much as Protection with Seal of Command.
Well shiz, absolutely forgot! That sounds like a glorious solo pvp build 
Prot and 1 hitting after 5 mins? Sign me up pls (not sure if i’m trolling or not)
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I feel lazy to answer those who answered me that I have answered….
To the OP: I’m not biased against retadins, it’s the class/spec I started with, the one I had the most fun, the one I played the most. I cleared all Vanilla content with it. I reached Grand Marshall with it. I would have played it in Classic if I hadn’t rolled Horde to play with friends. My testimony is of a normal real guy, not some web statistics or a super-pro player spending consumables like there is no tomorrow to top some DPS chart.
Retadin is a viable but not great spec. It has a decent and balanced kit offense-deffense wise. It brings good utility to a 5-man, a raid or a BG premade. But don’t expect to be on pair to other DPSers. You shouldn’t anyway, you have more survival tools and more utility than most of them. DPS-wise, you will only pair them if you get really good gear.
Playing retadin is a challenge, a time consuming one. It’s slow (but pretty safe) to level and once you reach lvl 60 it’ll take time to gear it up and learn how to use it properly.
Once there, if you are going the PvP route, get into a premade and play team-wise, you’ll soon overcome their prejudicies. If you are going the PvE route, you’ll probably get more prejudicies: tell them you have a very good utility and learn well your DPS rotation to keep up with other DPSers.
So it’s up to you. Enjoy!
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Not bring ret pala or any other dps spec for a 5-dungeon is just about as low you can sink in wow.
If you have so serious problems clearing it it aint because of a hybrid.
But raid is a totally different thing.
Those ret who perform above average dps’ers are few and far between and has stacked some serious gear for off-spec going as holy or has a really nice guild who doesnt care about that % loss of damage they get for bringing one and beefed him/her up good with gear.
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It is not about clearing speed. It is about the message.
Plenty of dps to choose from, I rather pick ones who picked right class.
There is no such this as above average paladin dps. All those examples ret has been outgearing rest in raid and full of buffs (both world and class).
That esfahdnsi something was barely top 15 and they had given him way better gear than other dps.
That is pathetic and waste of others time to suit your own ego.
i had paladin in beta (original beta) because you know, coming after WC3 of course you make human paladin and it was boring. Prot is more fun and useful spec for paladin but you need to level a bit for it to become good.
People who only want rewards without reward can go to PVE/pve rp realms. There you can play whatever you want with clickers.
“picked right class” hoo boi.
There’s no such thing as the “right” class.
Either you pick what you want and do well, or you pick the top meta classes and… You guessed it, do well.
I see you remain adamant on your “ret cannot deal damage” stance, so let us see you prove it.
Level 60 spelladin, go!
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That has been proven.
I don’t see any way to prove that they do. That would be like making falsified report saying vaccines cause autism.
Of course if you stack with BIS gear for certain situation you can do decent. But any other class with same level of gear and situation would outplay by large margin.
It is like saying car without engine can go fast. Of course, if you drop it from cliff.
But not in race course.
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They are viable dps, they were a joke before talent rework, but now, it’s a solid choice, unless you’re slacking off retri paladins will get a raid spot.