are u trying to get buffs at night?? even in the mornings u have zg buff being popped several times an hour. ony is popped on cd with several nefarian heads being popped per hour at in the evenings. WCB is also not an issue after noon
you also only need 1 pop of each per week and u can just get them when afk, at least ony & zg u dont need full duration to last through all raids
On Fresh maybe, but not on Era; absolutely not several times an hour. Today I counted 2 ZG, 1 Rend, 0 Onyxia/Nef. Being able to time that is just pure luck or being online for 8h.
This tells me that you likely have never been raiding with a decent competitive setup.
They’ll just cut through everything a little bit slower, that’s all.
A decent and geared raid will still clear any raid even with 20-30 players, it’ll just take a little longer and maybe an additional healer. If at all.
Depending on the encounter, 15 players in TBC can do the job. In WotLK, depending on the encounter, as little as 12 players are no problem and, given a good healer, a single holy paladin will be sufficient for the whole raid.
So will they even notice in Vanilla? Sure, good players will. Does it matter? No. At the top end it will only shift numbers a little.
The only ones who will really suffer from disabled world buffs, are the casual raids at the bottom line. Many of them won’t be able to handle it and just break up.
how can pal heal 12 people if they have to spend 1gcd to heal 1 target but everyone getting high damage
I have — but that term “competitive setup” is subjective. Where do we draw the line? Do we only consider the top 3 guilds in the world competitive? Max 1 mage, druid, warlock, hunter? Sub 1h clear time?
I tell you this, when things go wrong and for some reason you’ve to do mechanics — like dancing on Heigan, avoiding the Lotus Swarm, or properly rotating tanks on 4HM every 3 stacks like the old-school guilds did — many players fall apart. I’ve seen it. People running around like headless chickens because they’ve never actually had to learn the real mechanics. They’re solid DPS, sure, great at smashing their keyboard — but that’s where it ends. They have done 85 Naxx runs with world buffs, but 0 runs without them. People are just way too used to steamrolling content with world buffs.
In GDKPs, where most players are already fully BiS, a single wipe on Sapphiron is often enough for them to call the raid. They don’t even attempt to finish it without world buffs — instead, they regroup and schedule a clean-up run with full buffs.
That alone says a lot about how dependent the current meta is on world buffs, even among top-geared players.
I’m not saying there aren’t good players out there who genuinely know the content. Hell, I started on an empty server and have personally tanked and DPS’d every boss in the game — all without world buffs.
You just have to adapt. As a tank, that might mean pulling out your shield more often. It forces you to actually play the game, not just rely on buffs to brute-force everything.
I think we understand each other.
That kind of raid is certainly not what I call competitive. And most certainly not decent. And that’s why I usually don’t care for speedruns. Or parses.
Now, if you happen to end a raid in a decent speed in level greens and without world buffs, maybe even without a full complement well, you’ll have my o7.
And yes, there are enough good players out there.
Online culture has changed and not just in WoW.
There’s a loneliness epidemic and I think people assume that by performing exceptionally they’ll prove their worth to the others. Anxiety plays a big role here.
I’m a veteran at this game and we just started a tbc waiting room guild on anniversary where we invite noobs and all kinds of people. I want to enjoy the social aspect because when I look back it wasn’t the speed runs I remember or god forbid the m+ in retail, it was the silly and fun moments in vanilla/tbc/wotlk that made it great.
This is nonsense. In original vanilla, world buffs were not disabled.
Yeah but the majority didn’t use it in 2006 …
it is nonsense, but … in OG Vanilla we did not have the WBs for every single Dungeon or raid. Some of the elite/edgy/… Guilds did, even them not consistently. And at the very least a wipe and losing the WBs did not make them pack up and wait for another day. So true Vanilla is not using the WBs. The “bribe” for doing this is on the other hand so not Vanilla!
You have to go very far with these comparisons.
Majority played protection warriors with shield.
Majority geared differently. Meta was different.
Majority played on bad internet connections.
Community was completely different, there’s no simple change that would revert the game to 2006.
not even 1% of the player base cleared raids back then. today people without arms clear them
But do you at least agree WB meta is degenerate or?
world buffs, consumables and gear all degenerate the game from ability
I don’t think WB by themselves are degenerate, only the meta.
the meta being picking them up once per week? only getting WCB as ally is degenerate it requires an exploit, several accounts and collaborating with the enemy faction
Yes, I don’t like it. They could nerf raid bosses hp by 20% and disable WB in raids.
why should they nerf the raids? removing world buffs makes it boring to play. better they buff the raids and give everyone 20% crit baseline if they remove wbuffs. not everyone has to clear all the raids either
To compensate for the loss of WB’s.
pservers did overtuned raids with wbuffs disabled, it was cleared by restarts there. no nerf is needed at all