Patch notes we absolutely need

PVP Arenas
82

arms is not hard to play, but its damage is harder to get off simply based on the fact that it requires you to be in melee range. They have roughly the same number of buttons but if warriors started spamming mortal strikes from 20 yards, while auto casting overpowers that hit anyone within 30 yards, we’d be seeing arms doing WAYYYY more damage than it already is

I think it undeniable that ret is the best melee in the game right now. Arms isn’t far behind, but it is still behind, especially on damage and utility.

Why? I don’t play at 3K rating, neither do you - neither does 99.9% of the playerbase. But even if we did care about the 0.01%, even up there they are getting obliterated by ret damage

The last time I played ret was in SL S1 and S2 where they were already incredibly overtuned damage wise, with the absolutely insane 14 YARDS FINAL VERDICT! and the divine toll that was 100-0ing people you weren’t even looking at. The weaknesses back then were that we had shield of vengeance on a 1.4 - 2 minute CD, bubble, bop and nothing else. Every ret got trained every game and dying without bubbling was pretty common.

Since then, in DF, ret has kept its damage from SL, but been given EVEN MORE RANGE, has had its cooldown of SoV HALVED, has been given barkskin, instant flash of light that does absurd healing, an enormous buff to wake of ashes and an enormous buff to mobility on top of it all. The spec, relative to essentially every other melee, plays itself now. It is most comparable to Demon Hunter in 10.0, but besides doing the same damage as DH in 10.0, with the same ease, ret in its current form also does it from 20-30 yards away on a much shorter cooldown, too.

83

2x short cd charges + 30sec heroic leap. Thats makes it quite hard to be in melee range for sure.

If you remove the MS effect on dmg, then they are behind rets yes.

You are talking like you know, but you have not seen ret streams? Are you basing it on assumptions? I dont deny Rets doing alot of dmg, but there are also times when you will see differently. Ive watched both mes and vanguard playing. Theres specs doing quite alot of burst dmg out there.

I didnt know it kept healing for absurd amounts all the time huh, its likely you are not overexaggerating anything.

WoA got buffed, its abit too strong sure just with the base of it being able to crit.
But an enormous buff to mobility? Hello? divine steed off GCD and if specced into it, like alot are not, you get 2 charges and 6sec duration. 45sec recharge timer. No idea how that is “enormous buff to mobility” unless you are counting “ranged ability” into consideration.
I still stand my point, when I play shadow or holy priest, id rather face a ret than arms.

When you explain, its like you are saying rets are still Gods and even a braindead idiot can climb with it, which sadly, has been proven not everyone can.

84

Every single warrior enjoyer would instantly trade charge for an extra 20-30 yard range on their abilities, in a heartbeat, no doubt.

MS once used to be a luxury that only a few specs had, like arms and rogue, but this isn’t 2007 anymore. Your demo lock has MS, your monk has MS, your hunter has MS, your feral has MS, your DH has MS, your spriest has MS, hell even your DK has MS now.

9 classes have access to it, 4 don’t. 15 dps specs do, 10 don’t. If you want to specifically talk about sharpen, sure, definitely strong, no ones gonna say it isn’t - but is it anything worse than shiv, fel fissure or psyfiend? Probably not.

No, I’m not - they literally had to nerf it by over half and it still crits for 100k during wings on a 6 second cooldown that costs nothing. Enhancement shamans in tears.

They were given unbound freedom for free, their judgements now give them a speed boost, the honor talent spot they freed up can now be put into judgements of the pure, meaning magic/disease/poison based dispels now just dont work on them, they can talent into an auto-casting consecrate that spam dispels snares and roots, they can spec into seasoned warhorse and/or double horse charges, but most don’t because they again dps from 20-30 yards so the existing spam dispel mechanics, unbound freedom and judgement of justice means they just don’t need it.

Even ability like Wake of Ashes, which you’d think would require you to be up close to use, is also 14 yards. They have so much mobility and ranged pressure that they can afford to not even spec into the extra mobility they had prior to the patch.

hello

What you prefer fighting doesn’t = what is OP. I hate fighting Devastation Evokers, they’re annoying and they can randomly one shot you if you fall asleep bored chasing them, i’m never going to use this as an example as to why Devokers are stronger than say, Demo Locks.

A couple of weeks ago they were the strongest iteration of a spec we have ever seen in WoW. Stronger than 3.0 Hysteria DRW DKs, stronger than 7.0 DH, stronger than 5.0 Arms, stronger than 4.0 Frost Mage, stronger than 9.0 Ret Pala, stronger than 10.0 DH.

They had the best damage we had ever seen, they spam dispelled their entire party of all magical, disease and poison effects, they had some of the best hybrid healing we’ve ever seen, rivaling 9.0 ret pala, they had defensives that made Demo Locks blush and they did all of this while standing at 20-30 yards range.

Since then, they have chopped them in half damage and healing wise, removed the spam dispelling of allies and nerfed sacrifice and divine protection AND STILL they are the best melee damage wise, joint best defensively, the best utility, best uptime and best QoL

Ret right now can fit into just about any comp and do well - MS or no MS, it doesn’t matter, because they will outlive you into dampening and outlive you within dampening, where your pitiful 1.5 - 2.5 minute cooldowns will look pathetic compared to 1 minute wings, 1 minute SoV, 1 minute Divine Protection, 1 minute Sacrifice and a 20 second cooldown HoJ

86

Nope, not what I said. Please re-read it, take your time.

87

You wrote

hostility towards individuals … based on their nationality

So how exactly did my answer not fit with what you wrote?

88

Then lets give arms warriors 20-30yard on certain abilities and remove both charges and make heroic leap 45sec. Would be fun to see.

Psyfiend can be killed instantly while sharpen blade cannot. One is 45sec CD while the other is 25sec that you can just bake into your rotation. Almost like you want to downtalk how strong it is comparing it to psyfiend, I dont mind it but it just feels odd.

45sec CD can be insta killed.

So you are talking about before it was nerfed or something? And i’ve seen enh do way more self healing and times even more healing than actual healers. Its being changed in 10.1 so who knows.

Purgable and its a talent, so not “free”. Unbound freedom could not be purged as PvP talent. 10% movement speed from judgement. Thats quite enormous indeed.
Alot of these things you say are things ret already had so why were the mobility considered bad before, but now enormous with the 10% movement speed increase and GCD off divine steed? Thats basically what got “added” as mobility.

Dont make it sound like what I dont say is what I mean. Thats called making assumptions.

That was before. You are talking like its the same now.
And like ive said, go higher with your ret and get a feel for it. Do 3s and climb as easly as you say. You have a week on you, you can do it!

10% dmg and 10% crit is indeed insanely overtuned as 1min cd, it should be increased to arms warriors 1.5min 20% dmg increase that removes roots and snares effect.
I cba keep comparing since it would just make you overexaggerate even more based on what I say. Rets and Arms are overtuned in dmg, thats it. 10.1 is soon here. Wowie. Will be fun to read what next will be overtuned and broken.

89

Do you think that arms is stronger than ret?

Do you think ret is the strongest DPS spec right now?

If you think ret is stronger than arms, by how much, or is it equal?

90

I think they’re equal but that is from a dk pov.
Ret outlasts me arms just goes right through lol

91

On my DK i feel like I can beat an arms warrior if I can kite him and let pets aids him, vs rets I feel like I can’t do anything - like a low level getting ran down by a high level. They walk through all my slows, aoe stun all my pets and if they run judgements of the pure they dispel all my dots.

but i’ve played DK for like 1 day in the past 5 years, so grain of salt

92

So you are saying because ret is stronger than arms, it means = arms not overtuned.
Using your logic it has to mean that.

93

I am asking you if you think ret is overtuned , or arms

94

Im just saying the same thing you said to me. I already said rets are overtuned. Arms are overtuned. But according to the way you write, because one spec are overtuned, another spec cannot be.
Flawless Logic.

95

Idk how you manage to get away from arms but ye if you manage to break los arms is definitely easier to deal with than ret.
Kiting the ret is more to his advantage than your own lol

96

Judging a country is more than fine - It is led by a crazed warmongering dictator and his actions are inexcusable.
In this thread you judged an individual though, not a country. And then built this “if hating on bad things makes me bad…” strawman of an argument.

Be honest, what part of you actually cares about the issue and what part of you just enjoys a free socially acceptable pass on hate towards people you don’t know? Which part is bigger? Like, have you actually done anything to help Ukraine?..
This talk is as mentally draining as trying to convince vatniks that Russia actually did a lot of horrible crap in Ukraine. And before you gotcha me here - no, vatniks were a minority while talking to Russians. Bottom line is war sucks and i hate it.

Yeah, nope, let’s return to the usual program.
Funny looking pink man killed me in 1200 solo shuffle plz nerf by 33%

97

What other specs do you think are on par with Ret and Arms?

What im trying to do is figure out what power level you think rets are on. If we use just basic numbers, imo, rets are like 11/10, arms is 9.5/10, demo is 9.5/10 and most other DPS are between 8/10 and 7/10.

Since we already know Rets dominate solo shuffle, dominate BGs, dominate RBGs and dominate 3v3 in any comp they’re in, its undeniable that ret is the top dog right now even after several waves of nerfs - so i’m trying to ask you what your opinion is, without you getting stuck in a loop of defending ret against arms, which is a conversation not worth having as seen above

98

You obviously can’t judge a country, you judge the government and the people who support their actions when you do that. In the country we are talking about, the absolute majority supports their action.

And for the last time: My statement you quoted clearly addressed the sanctions imposed by the EU and GB on said country.

It is what it is. You said its xenophobia even though I would hate anyone who would do something like this. But you react like the typical naive idiot:
“Oh, he is accusing someone from a country that does bad things. Let’s just call him xenophobic!”

Apart from monetary and material donations, my taxes, among other things, also pay for the housing of Ukrainian refugees as well as for the arms deliveries to Ukraine.

And how about you?

You got killed in a 1200 mmr lobby? Well, yeah, I didn’t expect more from you to be honest.

99

My opinion doesnt matter much since I dont care how much something is overtuned comparing it to other specs being overtuned to say something is not overtuned.
I say they are overtuned, how much they are overtuned is blizzards business. Ive said their dmg is overtuned, I dont agree with defenses being “enormous” right now as you say it is.

So your powerscale is based on 10+ being overtuned? So you are still saying only rets are overtuned? Considering if you check basic numbers and 1/10-10/10 is within the line of not being overtuned for you.

100

ok great - ret is OP, every metric we have shows that

convo over i guess

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101

And arms :grin::grin:

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102

So according to you, nothing else is overtuned. Ok great.
When you can actually argue based on other classes being able to be overtuned when others are also overtuned, we could go back with the convo. But since u seem to be incapable of that:

Convo is over yes.