They’re asking for personnal loot, not more loot.
It isn’t mental gymnastics. If you take away the incentive to CREATE and LEAD pugs, you reduce the amount of pugs created. See below:
There you go. Take it from the people with experience playing this game, there’s no magic ‘everything is as i want it and the playerbase responded accordingly :D’ button.
Or maybe they have the specific drink but won’t serve it to you. You have to open your own bar to be able to drink it.
So you’re telling me everyone, 1000s of people, are sat twiddling their thumbs purely because nobody is making a group? I have, and I do make my own group. I also do HR stuff. Which makes gathering members a time consuming thing to do. I would rather not, but this is the forced system atm. If everyone has a free shot at the loot, this take a filter off the grouping process.
No it’s not I agree, there is extra stress running your own groups. But my point being this is made EASIER and FASTER if loot is personal. You will see less ‘‘no more rogues/warriors/hunters plz’’ etc.
I address this earlier.
…
Why do you think they added the LFG UI? Also this is classic, the raids aren’t too difficult to lead through. And to be honest being leader is quite relaxed, usually your dps/hps/tanking levels are more laxed than any other pug since you’re usually dealing with loot distribution & calls etc.
yeah buddy, poor you annoying to HR whatever you want and get ppl get it for you ^^
also hosting? HOSTING? lmao what are you hOstINg even?! are you popping WB are you providing key roles? what are you even hosting just like the other day a lock in lfg “LFM Prince 0/2 tanks 0/3 healers and dps, Stormwrath, Echos of betrayal lock token HR” not even joking. IS THAT what you are hosting? ^^ go ahead run your guild runs, won’'t be missed
Yes, actually. Do you know how common procastrination is with the gaming community?
It isn’t forced. You are not forced to HR an item. You can create a group with your own rules, you can be the change that you want to see. You refuse to do so.
Finding people is easier, leading it is still stressful. Only now, that stress isn’t worth the reward.
You addressed it by saying you HR items. You do not have to HR items. You are not forced to HR an item. You have the choice of creating your own group with nothing HR’d.
Then go do it. It doesn’t matter how difficult or easy the raid content is, leading random people is still about as enjoyable as having your teeth pulled out.
What on earth is this dribble?
Let me guess, you go to work at Mcdonald’s and then you complain that the manager, area manager, regional manager, maintience team and even the CEO all get paid more than you? ‘ThEy’RE NoT DOinG AnY OF ThE WoRK I COoK TeH BuRGeRR NOt THeM!’
You said you are an officer in your guild ^^ PL with tradeable items=more loot for the raid, do you have a clue?
you keep parroting this. how about you go and SOLO the raids whenever you feel like it? how about that for an incentive? oh wait you need those pugs to be your b***s when you WANT st from the boss and you need the group to help YOU get it
but wait your highness is to full of himself to roll on stuff just like every other peasant! amirite?
I KNOW A FIX FOR THIS!
P E R S O N A L L O O T
Bro you really need to stop with the irrelevant strawmen
You dont come off as someone who has organised many pugs… just saying. There is a massive difference in organizing a pug, and just joining one and waiting for it to start…
You gonna get your panties in a twist over that word? Is it better if i say “organizing”? will that help the debate?
No, but i pretty much make sure the run is happening.
And what if it ISNT a 1-boss raid? What if its bwl? mc? You cant just invite a bunch of people and expect it to just run flawlessly without doing ANYTHING in said raid.
I dont get it, why dont you host your own groups? Since you claim its absolutely no big deal. Its the same story every time, hate having to join HR groups, but straight up refuse to make your group.
Is everything allright at home? What is your logic behind this?
Personal loot has always been better for 99% of the game, despite it’s shortcomings.
It’s the same amount of loot. Only now we run the risk of a trial saying ‘nu-uh me got this, me keep it, me no give bis item to the tank’.
Because it is true. People don’t create and leads pugs because it’s fun. Read every post in this thread, even the people arguing with me (Elissah and Fox) have said that they’re using HR and wont lead a pug unless they get something out of it.
What kind of braindead argument is that?
Why would I waste my time and effort creating and leading a group of random strangers for one item, only tolose it to some scrublord? Why would anybody else? Again, people on YOUR side of the argument said the same. They wont.
I know this playerbase. Forcing personal loot would reduce the amount of groups created. There’s a reason why this system was reduced in retail.
There isn’t a problem and there’s nothing to fix. Again, you create your group with your rules. You can go and create a pug right now where every item is roll’d for. You wont.
You can be the change you want to see. You wont. You want other people to change to suit you, but wont lead by example.
Wouldn’t have to argue at all if you numpties listened.
Then why did it get reduced heavily in retail?
And 89% of all statistics are made up.
oh but i did and i still do. and that’s why i find it hilarious to see defenders of HR like you two when back when i only had to type PL on in the lfg and got flooded with /w
just like now when i type 2x SR or smth instead of HR 
and getting the group going instead of waiting hours
my man if creating a pug for said raids drains the energy out of you, i mean …
right back at you
That’s cute. Continue to do so and ejoy the fact that ‘everybody’ wants to join your run because there’s no HR.
I’m sure leading groups of random people through AQ40 (20 now) is totally not stressful and completely rewarding for you and definitely worth the time.
Then i dont see the problem. You organize the groups you want to, and ill do it the way i want to.
There is a reason why there are so many HR groups up and running. Some people mind, and some dont.
I dont really wait hours, but you can believe what you want.
Yes, dealing with random pugs compared to guildies is, 100%, more demanding:)
But answer this. Do you think that those who host HR raids, would host raids if they couldnt HR an item?
Legit question.
are you dumb or just pretending?
don’t generalize. YOU and the likes of you don’t create pugs UNLESS it gives them fat quick benefits = greedy pigs with a superiority complex treating other as
by default
This doesnt make sense to me. Why are you SO f’ing mad at people who HR items, when you make your own groups and fill them instantly?
Why does it bother you what OTHER people are doing in their own groups, when it doesnt affect you IN ANY WAY?
???
Do you know how personal loot works? If a boss drops 5 items, those 5 items are randomly distributed to people in the dungeon/raid. You do not get more drops.
I can generalise all I want, because what I’m saying is correct. Leading random people isn’t fun, people from your camp agreed to that.
That isn’t how it works. I’m not going to run an old raid wherein I, or a friend of mine, requires just one single item if when that item drops, we’re not even guaranteed to get it.
This mindset is shared, which is why people invented HR in the first place.
Yes, by default. Most of the pugs I’ve seen are average or below average at whatever role it is that they are playing.
You’re making Nitromethane look reasonable.
Did it? ML was only reinstated for guild raids and there’s unanimous dislike towards group loot in LFR, everything else is personal loot.
Yes? Removing it from raids was a heavy reduction would you not agree?
And that’s because it is a garbage system. It should have stayed in LFR, where groups aren’t created or lead and are essentially just loot pinatas. But we dont have LFR in SoD.
ok you’re dumb…
braaaaah, meanwhile the very second a new pugable raid opened, let’s say like Ruins, “LFM AQ 20 need 0/2 tanks 0/3 healers rest dps idols HR, recipes HR” etc - some random greedy pig in lfg , rings a bell?
the pEOplE you keep bringing up tested the waters first and since there were enough of other ppl who went along with that for various reason, it stuck, BUT it doesn’t make it right, tho!
and BACK to the point, it doesn’t make PL a bad or even a worse thing like you’re saying, it just cuts you off 
GUILD raids, every PuG I’ve been into has kept personal loot because demanding joining a guild for PuG’s is asinine, no-ones doing that.
I’ll have to take your word for it. Come to think about it though, the last time I briefly played retail I don’t recall seeing ANY pugs going. Well, not including boost or sell runs. Wonder why that might be…
As for dungeons, getting an item that I didn’t want or need and not being able to trade it because it had a higher item level than something I already had wasn’t fun. At all. That was a hinderance.
Explain the math to me. A boss drops 5 items, there are 8 bosses. This is 40 items total, correct?
A boss randomly assigned items to 5 people. There are 8 bosses. 40 items have randomly been assigned. How is there suddenly more loot?
Explain the math to me.
Yes. And each time, you all have the option of saying ‘LFM AQSmall, 0/2 tanks, 0/3 healers, 1/5 DPS, nothing HR everything /roll’.
You’re really using morality as a benchmark now?
It makes it a lot worse. First and foremost, it completely messes with loot distribution in guild runs, and as for pugs; once again, there will be less pugs.
It doesn’t matter how many times you argue against this point; less people will create and lead pugs if they can’t HR an item they want. This is simple truth.
If the people creating the pugs just wanted to do the raid for funsies and not for that one specific item, they would anyway. You all have the option of creating your own raid with whatever loot rules you want, it doesn’t happen.