No one think Blizzard should timegate access to all raids instead of having them open through quest attunements from the start like it was in TBC?
Because without that, you can expect whole T4+T5 with Hyjal cleared within 2 weeks with our AQ/naxx geared toons, and a PVE lifespawn of this expansion of ± 6 months.
Yes, I believe Blizz is not completely off their rocker and Hyjal will not be accessible at launch, 4 people per week. Can you imagine the massive split-raiding effort to get 25 people in week 1? 7 fully Naxx BiS geared raids clearing T5, attuning their 4 hand picked candidates to then join Mother of all Stacked Raids.
No I firmly hope the phases will go like:
P1: Kara, Gruul, Mag
P2: The Eye, SSC
P3: Hyjal, BT (+ ZA maybe here, or like P3.5 a month or two later)
P4: SWP
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I agree that there are “social issues” with Classic. The servers being too huge, cross realm BG’s and leveling via dungeons are three well identified issues. And anyone could have anticipated that : it’s a shame that Blizzard didn’t.
We could add the fact that most of the players are part of well-established communities, and that you don’t join easily such community while leveling.
Social activities have switched from happening in the game to Discord and there isn’t much Blizzard could have done about that. Discord isn’t just like the old VT or TS. It’s more a “social network”. If Nost had been released while discord was widely used it might not have had this social appeal.
Nostalrius was one of the first private server to try to recreate an authentic experience. Before Nost, most of the private servers were free version of the game with fast or instant leveling, cash shops and much less accurate coding. I have to admit that the Nost team have made a much better job than Blizzard at recreating Vanilla’s feelings. Yeah I know the word “feeling” is highly subjective. However if you ask players who’ve played Vanilla, Classic and Nost, almost all will tell you the same thing : Nost managed to recreate something Classic didn’t.
This two minute Nostalrius Begins - Release Trailer - WoW Vanilla 1.12 Private Server - YouTube trailer suggest that the nost team knew better than Blizzard what have made his own game great.
The truth is that Blizzard’s devs seems lost. Many persons see Blizzard as purely lead by greed - and they are greedy. But I think that right now, Blizzard simply don’t know how to make awesome games anymore – and players let them know. They only partially understand what have made their old games great. This is why I’m posting here.
Read more of the posts, please.
It was even a response to a post by you. Seems you missed it entirely though.
Edit:
Ah wait, it was that post you quoted. You just “conveniently” skipped the part where it ANSWERS WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. Manipulative *******.
You just keep talking about the “feeling” while you’re trying to leave it undefined, even though it’s explained in the PART YOU SKIPPED.
Simply put, you’re talking about the emotional dissonance which is already explained in what you skipped.
And yet you continue to compare it to Classic. It’s like words don’t register with you.
I’ve told you already, Classic is an abomination. It’s the changes that actually were made that made it worse overall. It’s because of those changes, that the feeling is different.
Literally no one have ever said that.
Some of them had a much better Vanilla feeling though. Nostalrious felt like Vanilla. Classic feels like the half okisch emulation with bad emulated spell batching on a modern client.
What private servers do have is the real authentic client and a real Vanilla feel. Playing Nostalrius did in fact feel like playing Vanilla. Classic feels like an emulation.
I am not so sure if having progressive talent trees would make a big difference or not in terms of raids difficulty. I played back in TBC raiding since 2.2 or 2.3 and even in 2.3 T5, T6 raids were still hard for guilds who do not out gear the raid. T4 for raids that still have no Zul’aman gear was hard too. 2.4 it was a big difference, at least for T4 raids but not because of talents, but because there were available new gear in Magister Terrace and Justice Points that today would call it catch-up gear, gear that I am sure won’t be available until the 2.4 phase on Classic TBC, progressive talents or not.
Anyway, unlike in Classic where Blizzard only had available 1.12 data it is possible in this case for TBC they have access to a full data repository with all the progressive changes in data on every patch. Given that the way Blizzard is creating Classic servers is based on transforming the original data in the old format to data in Legion/BFA/Shadowlands server format, a transformation that I have not to doubt is made by some algorithm the made and not one thing at a time by hand at the end of the day there is no big difference for them to port one set of TBC data than porting 4 or 5 different sets of data from different patches. So, they could just do it even if maybe it no has a big impact because it does not have a big impact on development too.
- The part I haven’t quoted mainly answer to the question “why Classic doesn’t feel like Vanilla”. I haven’t quoted it because I agree with what you’ve said so I don’t have much to say about that.
- However this part don’t say why people should “stop idolizing” private servers beside the fact that there were bugs and inaccuracies.
What I’ve said is that players are “idolizing” the Nostalrius team (or at least have more consideration for them than for Blizzard) because they’ve to some extend managed to recreate the “feelings” better than Classic did. I just don’t understand why you are so harsh against those private server. But it doesn’t matter.
The reason is: people aren’t as bothered about difficulty as you think.
I’d much rather have the final talents and itemisation than monthly changes for the sake of monthly changes.
And besides, if you’re gonna lose sleep over the difficulty, Blizz can always buff up the content for a while, then revert it later, surely. We don’t need a desperate attempt at a 1:1 replica.
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Would you be comfortable with the WOTLK pre patch nerfs? If not, what would be your reason?
Patch 2.4.3 isn’t the WotLK pre patch to begin with
I never said it was, did I? I’m asking a question to Sardoc as part of an attempt to understand something from a logical standpoint.
He never said the playerbase doesn’t care about difficulty at all. I’m pretty sure if, hypothetically, all bosses were given 100k HP, people would be pissed - even the poster you were replying to.
It’s just that, all things considered, 2.4.3 is still a good state for the game where not a lot of content is heavily nerfed. Only a few select bosses (mostly T4/T5 content) were nerfed, as well as some heroic dungeons (though in this case it was mostly to make sure they weren’t as much of a death sentence to melee chars, so I don’t see much of a problem with it). For the most part, 2.4.3 still requires solid planning unless you’re in a hardcore guild (certainly more than, say, AQ40), and T6/SWP still stand out as being in pretty much pristine condition.
Don’t get me wrong, I’d be curious for once to see some of the bosses in their pre-nerf state (I started playing TBC shortly after BT was released so I never got to experience some of the content in its original state), but I still had fun in 2.4.3 - both back then and on pservers with half-working content/bosses. So I wouldn’t be surprised if TBC Classic turned out to be enjoyable nonetheless.
Well it comes to the question of what the purpose of classic versions of wow’s history are supposed to be. Is it to recreate the experience of the game?
Let’s say hypothetically you wanted to recreate the experience of the 20th century. Would 1990 be a good starting point to get the entire feel and experience of the century? Or even, if one were to play a simulation of a caterpillars life cycle would it be valid to start the experience off from the cocoon or the butterfly stage?
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That’s sort of a moot point because, as Blizzard itself said, you can’t really undo the knowledge and experience. And you also have players of all kinds to deal with (ppl who just picked up Classic, ppl who only have cursory knowledge of tactics, ppl who have been playing for months if not years on pservers… you get the idea)… who’re you supposed to try to recreate the experience for?
Personally I think you should try to recreate the experience mainly for the new player, which is why the game should be as mechanically close to what it was like as possible (with some caveats about hotfixes and other stuff, ofc). But some ppl on this board seem to think that the hardcore segment of the playerbase that has years of practice on content should be the “baseline” for tuning the content, just as it happened on pservers. Needless to say, I find such a stance to be extremely stupid.
In WOTLK pre-patch? Yes, I would.
Now, back to what I was actually talking about.
Apart from the purists, you won’t find many people wanting pre-2.1 talents and itemisation. The general responses would be “… why, though?” or “who asked for this?” if they were to see the changelog.
Think Tsunami Talisman or mage class changes (lack of Icy Veins, Evocation changes, mana gem changes, removal of Detect Magic, lack of Ritual of Refreshment), or even the fact that world buffs were still a thing.
But it wasn’t all nerfs, though. One of the changes was for consumables, where you could only have 1 battle + 1 guardian elixir, or 1 flask instead of these two, instead of stacking every elixir in existence, like in vanilla.
Why not just save everyone’s time and simply skip the step where the content is “more difficult” due to different class talents/abilities/itemisation, but at the same time can be made “easier” due to world buff madness or stacking consumables?
As I’ve said before, I’m not looking for a desperate 1:1 replica attempt. The 2.4.3 difficulty is already something I greatly enjoyed.
It’s not a moot point by any measure of the imagination. You can’t undo the knowledge people have of an event but that doesn’t mean you can’t recreate the timeline for the event.
In my last comment nothing was said about a baseline for tuning content being for experienced players. Congratulations you have called your own strawman stupid and given it a right good thrashing, kudos.
Let’s try and keep the tone civil shall we?
Why shouldn’t we experience the content through a progressive patch cycle when blizzard has the data to allow for it. Change is a fundamental aspect in each expansion, and we have an opportunity with TBC classic to see the seasons change as the content plays out, keeping things refreshing.
Not only that but a chance for a very real change of seasons in pvp world, which as other posters have stated better, would be a positive.
Out of interest do you support having all of the raiding content out on launch and if not, why not?
P.S You keep saying ‘desperate 1:1 replica’. I don’t understand why you keep saying that, it comes across silly. Replica’s can’t be desperate, only varying in degrees of accuracy in replicating.
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Well yeah you can recreate the timeline if there’s the data. Though I for one don’t wish to relive a lot of the early TBC stuff, like the wbuff meta or the lack of guildbanks.
Well if all you’re asking for is just original tuning, sure I’d be on board for that. Though as I said there’re plenty of things outside raid content that I don’t think needs to be progressive.
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I’ve already told you why. It’s something that only the purists want, and they’re not exactly the majority. Also, it would create a bizarre situation where world buffs and stacking dozens of consumables are still a thing.
If you want to make TBC different, feel free to ask Blizz to simply buff the enemies (more hp, more damage, whatever) instead of nerfing player items. I wouldn’t protest.
No, and again, I don’t think anyone other than purists wants all T5 and Hyjal available at launch. Just like there’s no need to make a mess of items and talents, there’s no need to make a mess of the expansion’s lifespan.
Purists seems to be a useful slur at this point to paint anyone with opposing views, would you care to define it for me?
You presume two things there which you should avoid as a habit.
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I don’t mind if people use the tools available in each patch to make encounters easy. I actually look forward to seeing what the absolute bleeding edge manages to pull off. Be it splits for hyjal attunements or whatever.
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I’m perfectly fine with the world buff meta existing in the early patches of TBC, it won’t be lasting too long and it’d be cool to see the game from that angle for a brief time.
I am interested by you wanting 2.4.3, but also wanting to gate t5 and Hyjal. Why would you want to do 2.4.3 Kara/gruul and Mag for months? When you could gate it but experience it in it’s original form which eventually changes with the ‘phases of TBC’.
I would add that it is rich reading the words ‘If you want to make TBC different’. Spoken from a position against progressive patching.
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