Most people always bash the current system so it means literally nothing.
you feel less toxic when mr crabs get the loot whom you had nothing against.
Meanwhile mr bobby is there him you hate and he gets the loot sometimes 2 pieces.
thats group loot with ninja boots.
You mean people hate it cause its what we have now but if they change it,they ll love it right?
Not true.
Who complained about PL?
Who said we need GL back?(with no second choice)
I never did.
I was happy.Now I am not with this press the button for cherries thingy.And ooops…no cherries,go again next week.
People complain when they don’t get loot and blame whatever system is in place.
In cata random HC everyone was fine with GL because it dropped 3-4 times more items overall than M+ today.
In SL we had people complain about PL and everyone just argued whatever popped into their heads, like they do today with GL. Logic was always absent.
Sure, I’d be fine with PL. As long as it’s no duplicates, no trades, and gives me the option to pass loot if I don’t need anything from a boss 
I would welcome the increase in drops.
Under PL though.
I don’t want to press a button,I don’t wanna see how I lose(If I lose behind the curtains its ok,at least I don’t see it).
And I want the actual classes in the raid to get what they need.Not loot for classes that are not even there(so PL)
In SL they decreased the drops thats why ppl complained.
I think they should just bring back PL over all loot in raiding feels like ninja turtles.
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Absolutely. Everyone who does raiding have experienced this issue with the massive increase in toxicity and ninja behavior due to how GL works
Only people who never pug or lfr,dont see a problem with it
The big plus of Personal Loot was in the beginning of the season where every loot is an upgrade
Later in the season theres a general rule of upgrading slowly ,due to how nieche and specific the needs become,a certain trinket…a certain ring…,nobody can say that “omg personal loot gave me bad items i went for weeks in row without an upgrade” …when all you need is 2-3 pieces left. You wont get upgrades easily under any loot system at that point
The “omg they whisperint me” contra argument of personal loot,is hillarious …as if theres nothing you can do about it lol. Just dont open the chat and close it?! They pop right after u win something so obviously is gonna be people asking for it. If ur bothered by that,dont open and straight up close it. Oh noes but what if they whisper AGAIN? Also you get whispers just as much with GL
I just cant with this argument
What group loot brought?
- Kicking players at fyrakk 5%
- Pressing need on everything thats available to press and leaving the raid
- Bis people queueing to boost their friends pressing need on lower ilvl items (but different stats so inb4 they need that 441 ring when they got 489)
- People who were getting 2 pieces guaranteed in shadowlands,not winning anything for weeks in row and stop queuing all together
- A super drought of healers and tanks because their items are being ninjad ,increasing queue times for anything
- Relying on m+ and great vault for gearing which is depressing
- The greed and transmog loot options becoming decorative,nobody presses them under pug/lfr
- You get more luck on winning the lottery than winning a bis ring/trinket roll in a pug/lfr setting with literally all the raid going for it
I raid both guild and pugs and I got directly benefited from group loot system in guild runs and STILL I am AGAINST it because is horrible otherwise
GL should have never been imposed to LFR or Pug runs. Never.
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My issue isn’t GL… I can take losing on a roll aslong as its a upgrade for the other person. My issue is when people need for a transmog, as i stated earlier in this thread - transmogs don’t get you into higher keys or the next step of heroic.
I wouldn’t call myself entitled for knowing the difference between the need button and the transmog button. I also don’t think my time is of more value than others again… i just don’t see wanting a cosmetic as a need.
My issue is the players who think the need button is for a mog or to sell and as ive stated earlier, saying it’s ok to do it because its a pug when i only do pug raiding because i am just one example of a player who can’t commit to a guilds raiding times.
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This is complete ignorance on my part and I apologize in advance but, are need and transmog rolls on the same level?
If you don’t think it’s ‘toxic’ as we seem to be labelling it, to need on loot you don’t need then auction it off because you can or kicking five players from a boss kill so that you get more loot options that you know they wont get the roll window for. Personally I’d say it’s bad behaviour, something some of the playerbase will always stoop to if a system allows it. It’s not fair and it’s not nice. The last example of bad behaviour certainly shouldn’t lock players out of looting a boss. That is another awful side effect of GL. Under PL if any scumbag leader kicks you, you’d still get your loot in the mail. Ironically that was something they had to bring in after PL was introduced to stop bad behaviour. Now we just have a system that allows it again.
I’ve said this so many times now in these various threads that I honestly have lost track of which is which. I far prefer getting two items per full clear to this current system. The loot was more meaningful under PL because it respected people’s class and specs. The loot that drops is always relevant even if it’s not your bis item, it was for you and for your chosen spec. It never stopped organised guilds distributing gear, though obviously there is the initial restriction that you must be able to trade (ilvl). Many guilds have used systems like Loot Council with PL.
Making all gear tradeable in PL would have been far more fair.
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No its not, the mog option replaced the greed option but it validates my opinion that you dont “need” a cosmetic
Agree with everything. Players will always abuse whatever can be abused and we can shape players attitude in game by placing systems such as personal loot,where more often than not,people were rolling the items they didnt need
It was a positive atmosphere where everyone knew they have 1 guaranteed,2 average and at times 3 drops per completed raid.
Now with group loot,we get the law of the jungle. Losing a roll for an item that you need to a random who died 4 seconds into the fight,feels horrible and peoples attitude change when facing several time the same issue. They will start also to need on everythiny they can and creates this snowball effect of toxicity throughout the pug/lfr players which tbh,is most of us
I raid with a guild and pug and honestly,I hate group loot and what it did to the game.
It baffles me how Group Loot suporters cant see the negative impact it had on the game and disregard the human nature aspect of the situation,sticking to mathematics and saying “the loot is the same its just hidden rolls”
Yeah,the math adds up but let me give you another example where the math adds you
A friend is asking me for 10 euros to buy food because he is broke. I agree,but I give him 1 cent everyday for 1000 days
Does the math add up? Absolutely.
Is it the “sAmE” ?!?! Definitely not.
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That’s not how you bring back personal loot. Being the good guy.
The way you bring them to change it back is by raising awareness of the problem. Need on EVERYTHING and sell it in PUG grps or disenchant it before the eyes of the people who really need it. Only if blizz recognizes the uproar in the community it will change it back and see how stupid their decision to bring the old system back was to begin with.
At the end of the day I think Bliz were just straight up unwilling to do this, nor do I suspect they’re any more willing one expansion later.
Again, the loot does not “vanish” as you people like to say. The loot goes to people that dont need it but still press need.
And fyi there have been a lot of people suggesting changes while still keeping GL but that you just conveniently forget to mention, dont you?
Simply make someone unable to roll need when the item that drops is of lower ilvl than anything equipped, in their bags or bank and there we go, problem fixed. Now they can only roll greed or mog and thats completely fine.
Damn no stat changes, no tier if I happen to get something from Mythic+ in that slot, and no good trinkets.
Ilvl does not equal upgrade.
Quite easy to tweek these changes, no need to nitpick as its easy to see that something along the lines of these changes are necessary.
Auctioning was caused by enabling cross realm gold trading, not GL. The same would continue with PL and you know that.
The community judges a loot system based on how many upgrades per kill they get. If they bring back PL to raids in the same form it’s in M+ right now, it will take you ~10 weeks to get your bis trinket while the forum will have the exact same whining threads as now.
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only a bad player can say that - many times secondary stats are way more important than ilvl especially for classes like, say, frost mage or aug evoker - you just want mastery on your gear - so if you have higher ilvl temporary with wrong stats you just want mastery items - even with lower ilvl - blocking people from rolling on lower ilvl would be incredibly stupid.
Same goes for many, many trinkets for many classes.
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The majority of the people here are just crying because they didn’t get loot and you’re whining on me because I’m not mentioning the few (If there are any, because I genuinely didn’t see) that aren’t?
Don’t act in bad faith. I’m all for constructive talks and I’ve hardly seen any here.
That would work for the majority of the loot, but it should be implemented with ilvl ranges in mind due to how trinkets work. Or have specific rules for trinkets.