I think it’s hard to create a distinction like that outside of maybe LFR because the problem with PL is it’s both detrimental to some organised raid groups and entirely too flexible / abusable for others.
I feel that for organized raid groups, the raid leader should be able to pick the loot rules, just like in the distant past (with the condition that the loot rules are clearly visible and cannot be changed on the fly). Master Looter hadn’t been available since WoD in largely PUGs, as that had been misused frequently, but it would still work for proper guild groups, if the group wants to use it. PL and GL could also just be options for organized raiding. I think more choice would be a good thing.
The other issue was stacking, though I wonder how wide spread that was outside of very competitive guilds or events. In the last RWF event, the competitors still recruited random people and paid them gold for their loot. GL made it a little less convenient than PL, but the principle is still the same.
I think one of the “social issues” of PL was that other people could see what everyone else got. Just disabling that might already have removed much of the toxicity.
It’s not necessarily just stacking because item drop frequencies being affected by group composition affects everyone.
No matter how hard you try.
Avg 2 loot / raid with pl> avg 0 loot /raid with gl.
Guess which one is better. Getting something or getting nothing.
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It’s really simple. Personal loot is good for players, because they don’t need to fight each other on it. When someone better geared got something, he can ask if someone want the piece of gear and it’s totally okay.
Group loot is better for blizz.
But you need to look at it from business perspective: personal loot shortens the play time of player needed to gear up. Since this game is subscription based, you will pay for playing for next month (since you didn’t get anything from raid, right?). Sure, if personal loot would be implemented, after getting full gear on normal, you may cancel the sub since maybe there’s nothing more to do until the next patch. But more chances you will prolong your play for next month, since you don’t have needed gear.
tldr: they just want your money guys.
Is basically an option with rc loot council and works brilliantly with good officers
Yeah functionally PL can work as ML if everyone trusts eachother. The issue with it is the opportunity to break the trust and need on things while the rest of the group passes rests with the the person who agreed to join the group under the expectation they would use master loot.
yes i tink sould be back for pug but for guild sould be master looter or choice between persnol loot and master loot up to guild
No no no please
I don’t like personal loot because if i win something i don’t need people always whisper me 200000000 times DO YOU NEED? and i don’t want to put people on ignore…
If you want to win ROLL need if you lose roll get over it go next…
I know you think you needed because it’s BiS or some other weird reason
but you don’t need it it’s a game you win you win you lose you lose simple as that
With GL, you instead get whispers like:
- “But do you REALLY need it?”,
- “Why did you roll need when you had something better?!” and
- “Hey, I won the item you wanted, do you want to buy it from me?”.
For both PL and GL there is an easy fix for this: There is no need for the game to broadcast to the raid who got what item. It’s not information that other players need to have in LFR/PUGs.
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And that would bring forth even more complaints, because you won’t even know who and how badly outrolled you. Or even if anyone else is rolling on the item in the first place. No, this is a terrible idea, to keep people in the dark.
The information doesn’t have much use in a LFR or PUG setting, though. You either win or you don’t win. I feel a lot of the agitation comes from watching people out-roll you, especially people who didn’t need an item as an upgrade or people who die at every pull, or people who do 20k dps. I suppose the information could also be anonymized instead of suppressed, so you’d know you got out-rolled or how many players rolled need, but without names.
Generally, though, the suggestion was more aimed at addressing the PL issue of getting whispered constantly. My ideal loot system for LFR and PUG content would be PL without broadcasting who got what. If people want to share what they got, they could still post it to the chat.
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A lot of the agitation comes out of the very idea of seeing the loot as available and not getting it, not because of the roll numbers. The information is needed so that people can trade items between each other, like they sometimes did with PL, and such hiding won’t do anyone any good while locking options for the few who want to do something resembling a normal raiding behaviour.
Please explain where this 2 vs 0 comes from.
Peronal loot isn’t coming back sadly. This change to group loot was a deliberate nerf meant to slow down gearing, cause drama and further casinofy the game with rolling dices.
From personal experince, also many other posters here.
Im a longtime player, and did lfr in many xpac, and there was never a week, where after a full lfr raid clear i didnt receive atleast 2 loot avg (sometimes i got 1, sometimes 3) compared to this xpac. Atleast i got something for my time spent.
Now, some weeks i do full lfr clear and get nothing. My spent time gave me nothing.
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Yes i feel your pain Belleza, there is nothing more upsetting than running a raid, putting all your efffort in on the bosses and coming empty handed to some player who dies at the start. The roll system is a joke and blizzard should be ashamed of themselves. I personally have never known a company to treat their customers as bad as blizzard does… and look forward to what hits them like a ton of bricks in the future.
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its because they want to support thievery and toxicity.
least when PL was a thing in shadowlands it felt like a gold income selling to a vendor now its just a random puke that gets the loot that you’ve rolled on for a half year.
they should just remove this group loot and add loot vendors for all the raids and gears.
and make bosses drops emblems again that is personal which you can buy gear of the vendors. Problem solved.
Theres no discussion because PL is better than GL end of story
And I raid both in guilds and pug/lfr for alts. Is absolutely a jungle out there trying to get anything. GL made people savage,everyone needs on everything they can and leave the raid as opposed to Shadowlands where a lot of people were rolling their unwanted loot pieces
Why Group loot then?
Simple
WoW tokens sell better when people gear up slowly. And thats the only reason why they changed PL and will never be reintroduced
Funny, how group-loot works for other games, and worked for many many years in wow, before they even introduced PL.
GL clearly works.
You guys all just got entitled think you deserve everything.