There’s nothing to point out.
You don’t like the system? Oh boohoo, woe is you.
You’re out of luck. Blizzard aren’t going to change a core part of Classic just because some of you who shouldn’t even be playing Classic are crying about it.
Nobody has had a sensible argument. The closest was Digiweed acknowledging that he simply doesn’t like the system even though this is exactly as it’s meant to be.
Well this would be good in the sense that they wont get an insta queue to fight a pug. They would have to wait abit till a horde Premade queues up and fight them. So in this case its not the same its actually better cause they wont be able to spam the queue meaning they would wait in the queue for some time
Premade vs Premade only…
So no solo queue then?
Puggers are already crying that they cant win solo, imagine all the rage at not even being able to play solo.
As much as I don’t want to see any changes to the game, that would be funny.
Classic is a recreation of the GAME, the gameplay systems, how they used to work. Blizzard was Very clear about this when talking about Classic how the will not make balance changes and stuff.
I get what you people are saying. People are playing in more groups in 2020 compared to 2006 so it’s not as fun to solo pug battlegrounds. I get it. We all get it. But that’s irrelevant. The only thing that is relevant is whether or not the gameplay system, the queue system, if that is authentic and not being exploited. And it’s not. So that means that YOU have to adapt. Don’t demand that the game should adapt to you.
The solution is sooooooooo simple. Join players from your community (realm) and play together. That’s it. It’s that simple.
Oh, and one more thing. There have never existed a separate queue for solo puggers in WSG/AB in WoW, ever.
The people you’re reffering to isn’t in this discussion bro
Problem is Discord which has always been in the game (Team Chat back in the day).
Discord has taken it to a whole new level with groups and live messaging to email-phone, etc.
problem is a single good druid in a pug can litteraly carry the game so hard that he would make comparable honor to decent + premades in a q system like this.
And this is the underlying issue.
PvP as well as raids is a group oriented gameplay.
I find too often that from the nochanges crowd is a fundamental misunderstanding of something which is called repriocity. Which i boil down to the question ‘is this fun for me?’
I never PVP in the evenings becuase of the sheer Premade saturation that you will encounter if you solo queue. And even when i premade in those peak time. It isn’t really any fun. I play both in premades and as solo (prempting those who just constantly tell people to adapt and form your own premade) so i see both worlds.
Those who call for banning of premades i find wrong becuase it goes against the idea of being a social game. Seems counter to ban something where players come together to overcome an obstacle. But also those who call for making BG’s purely premade are also wrong. This is becuase it will:-
affect players of a certain class which is a predominance on a server as they will find it difficult to get into matches.
affect players who will spend considerable amount of time just attempting to form a group with the right composition.
Low pop server players will find it difficult to form groups, especially during non-peak times. This too will amplify the above point.
Not everyones playstyle can fit this premade model either. Some have lives outside of WoW. Some can’t dedicate copious hours of forming up a premade and doing battleground after battleground in an efficient manner
Players on non-PVP servers or where PVP is not a main focus will find it difficult to find like minded players and then those who are the hardcore pvpers can very likely end up gatekeeping.
Now back to my original paragraph on social repriocity. Some players exclusively solo queue for a multitude of reasons. For me one reason is that i just want to chill out and have some fun. I will join a game, get some kills, maybe capture a flag, maybe cap or defend a base/tower etc. This i will find fun and relaxing.
Now back in original WoW i would come up against a premade maybe 1 or 2 out of 10 games. I can accept that stomping by the premade as i recognise they are the more hardcore players. Not to worry, next game will likely be against the players more on the average level.
Now move to today, a player joins a BG solo. Get stomped by premade, joins another, gets stomped by premade, joins another, gets stomped…again etc. This player finds that he is coming up against premades 8 or 9 times out of 10. The chances of this player becoming jaded, bitter, cynical and frustrated increases exponentially. Which is was we are seeing, more and more peeps getting tired of this now. Some of my guildies don’t even bother with PVP not becuase they didn’t enjoy it in the past, but becuase the saturation of premades thwarting any attempt by them from having a chill match. Again, something which the min/max culture has created.
The player begins to realise that the effort they put in to have fun, is not being recieved. I know this is becoming the case for me. Again, i do both solo and premade, i find pugs vs pugs a hell of a lot more fun than a premade vs pug and premade vs premade. However those occasions are very far and few between. I PVP for fun, yes i also PVP for ranking and getting new loot. Ranking and loot is also fun. However the current predominance of premading i am experiencing and hearing from many others is that PVP is becoming less fun. And one of the non fun aspects is ghosting at a GY becuase a premade smashed a team and ended up camping a graveyard preventing those already being defeated once from even hoping to re-engage.
One type of player feels that the other player is not playing in a mutually beneficial manner, or may i say, reciprocally.
Take any game, darts. You put a casual pub going player against that of a major league player. They will undoubtedly lose. Now have that same casual pub player do that 10 times whereby 8 or 9 of those games are against major league players. They will get jaded, tired, bored. And leave. Again, both are playing the same game, with the same rules. However we can noticably see a difference. And if one keeps getting paired with the other they will get tired and leave. Which is something i have seen happen.
Which is why some of us call for (or at least to test and discuss) a split in the queue system where you have the casuals playing against casuals and the pros playing against the pros. I think people just want to have a chance at playing with like minded players.
Anyway, ramble over. Time to make some lunch
^this.
I don’t need to put a single word, cause it’s all been said.
I cancelled my subscription only because of this.
You know they are bad at pvp when they need a premade to win.
I am all for people playing together but not in this exploitative manner, yes there are pros and cons for premading and what not. But there has to be some sort of division. Whats the point if 1 group can be formed and instantly join the game and farm honor and rep(talking about alliance now). Yes they have lower population than the horde which enables them to do so, but isnt that considered an exploit?
In what patch in Vanilla?
In phase 5 and 6 it will be the same in Classic.
Agree with everything in your post
I dont think so.
I find too often that the people requesting changes completely overlook three simple questions. The questions you should be asking are as follows.
The problem with seperate queues is that you’re trying to look for a permanent solution to a temporary problem. Futhermore; the core problem isn’t premades or solo players, it’s Vanilla’s ranking system. That’s something that simply isn’t going to get fixed in Classic; the solution to that is wait for TBC.
The premade problem also gets lessened with time. People premade for best possible honor per hour, so that they can get their R14 weapons and gear sooner. Those items are currently BiS for all melee, and perhaps some casters. Once those items are no longer bis and are weaker than raid tier items, the demand for them will be much lower.
When the demand is lower, you have less people playing for reward and more people playing for “fun”.
Classic is an ecosystem and every change has consequences. Take layering for example, that is a consequence of Blizzard making the population caps on servers way too high.
The Alliance doesn’t actually have lower population than the Horde, they just have less people interested in playing PVP. And no, them getting faster queues isn’t an exploit, it’s just how the world works.
Times never change, do they Burton?
You still think wrong.
I think Blizzard are pretty much sitting this one out, and waiting for the later phases to balance it out.
Once the majority of the fatties have hit Rank 13-14, and AQ and Naxx is out which rewards better gear anyway, the number of premades will fall down. But they will still exist. They are not going anywhere (nor should they).
is this your way of debating ? funny (repeating the same you said to me before for no reason)
And you make up lies out of thin air, and wont admit it, it is you who think very wrong.
Not only did I quote what you said, I also linked you directly to said post.
That isn’t lying, and saying “I dont think” isn’t debating.
You don’t debate or discuss, you say “I dont think so” or “I dont think that will happen”. You provide no insight as to why you think things will go your way, and you have no idea how this game and community work.
You may be the most polite of the “seperate queue” crowd, but you still bring nothing of substance to a discussion.
You said in a post that i said something i never said, that is 100% lying when i told you that i never said it and you linked a post where i never said any such thing, and you still wouldnt admit i, even when its on black and white.
and the i dont think so i repliied to the other poster was because he said something that havent happened yet, so it was something he thought would happen, and therefore a ‘i dont think so’ is just as valid opinion of what he think will happen in patch 5