let me be clear here i think saurfang and sylvanas are their own kind of poison
but while there are many topic on problem with sylvanas there are non on saurfang and only treat him as som perfect hero and if you think differently you are just a stupid fanboy/fangirl
1 his motivation
he can’t be motivated than the horde are there but can then the boy king give him a pep talk
2 honor
he talks of honor constantly but we have no idea what it mean. and how far he will go with it. if he force it on everyone then he becomes nothing more than his own kind of garrosh
3 there make sylvanas a scapegoat for everything
with it I don’t mean that she is innocent at all but saurfang are as guilt in this as she is
Yeah yeah
Saurfang is a traitor
Sylvanas is evil
Baine is a cuck
Thrall is green jesus
Jaina is a mary sue
Anduin has plotarmor and wise beyond annoying
Tyrande & Malfurion are weak and never do anything
Talanji is an SJW feminist
And so on and so forth
We had it all.
But you know why it won’t get any better? Because there will always be someone who doesn’t like something. Can’t make it work for everyone.
That’s why I constantly advocate for the story to move away from this heavy character focus and go back to being a connecting narrative, with less significant, but more consistent actors.
To say something on the topic itself… Anyone who thinks Saurfang is a knight in shining armor, a hero without flaw is absoluetly wrong, yes. No matter what is idea of honor is, he didn’t always act upon it. At best he is the flawed, reluctant hero the Horde needs right now, at worst he is a confused old traitor, who doesn’t understand his own values. The narrative allows for both ends of the spectrum and what you think of him mostly depends on the way you structured the narrative in your head.
I like the broken warrior who cares about an ideal of the Horde as a bunch of honorable warriors, seeking death in glory. I like that he himself sometimes falls short of that.
You may see the weakling that was too chicken to follow through with what needed to be done to win his own war, who is now indebted to the Alliance king, and who accepted the human’s mercy instead of fighting him, although he wanted to die anyway. The guy who is going to divide the Horde and invite the Alliance in.
I’m not dismissing your position. But the argument is really not a new one.
Your bro-fist is labeled “facepunch”, so I decided to take this as a mixed signal and rethink my plan.
The consensus of some Horde players here seems to be that Saurfang is a traitor who deserves death, I’m still not sure why.
I don’t get this point… motivated to do what?
Garros abandoned his idea of honour a long time ago, when he nuked Theramore (only a year or so after giving his speech about honour to Overlord Krom’gar) and started meddling with Void powers. Saurfang is, in his view, merely protecting the Horde from Sylvanas, who is not honourable at all (his first words after Sylvanas burned down Teldrassil was literally “there is no honour in this”).
I am not a fan of Saurfang, but saying that he is basically as guilty as Sylvanas is, is not true, as is clear from the fact that he is actually willing to change and free the Horde from Sylvanas’ rule.
If someone is being used as some sjw agenda tool, that’s Anduin.
Can’t remember her exact words, but I recall Golden saying something like he was the ‘cure’ for toxic masculinity.
Also, Sylvanas taking random pride out of being the first woman Warchief, reeks of it too. It’s not as if she already comes from a race in which women have VERY dominant positions or anything like that.
I mean, even orcs glorify fighting alongside their women and like rough/independent ones better.
Fanwanking, you make it sound so very attractive… But I guess I won’t get to test your resolve, since I couldn’t surpass Arctur’s magnum opus, no matter how hard I tried. I’m not jester enough for that.
Maybe… I don’t know…
I avoid reading Golden’s books.
I don’t see any SJW stuff in wow yet, so I’m fine on that front and as long as Golden keeps her politics within her terribad books, I couldn’t care less.
Well, you have to admit that the Horde has dire need of it. Sylvanas may be more toxically masculine than Garrosh! She is obsessed with dominance hirachies and her position within them, prone to bursts of violent anger, always hiding her softer side and invalidating feelings in general! No empathy whatsoever!
To be fair, I really don’t see how they could include more social justice stuff in WoW, except in their choice of theme. What are they supposed to do? Discuss gnome representation? Comment on woman’s rights in a world where women can already be found in any position? Rally against hate speech? I don’t think there are many ways to get a social agenda into WoW, especially as long as their focus remains on the big epic events instead of the cultures.
Though I guess they could always thrown in a bit of Trump hate… but they kind of ruined that for themselves when they had the Garrosh-story before the orange guy became president.
![:facepunch:](https://d1bg94bbsh66ji.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/facepunch.png?v=6" ":facepunch:")