PTR Spoiler/Discussion Thread (Part 1)

That’s not what I saw from the cinematic. They made it clear WC3 Sylvanas and post are not the same people, but she’s willing to accept her responsibilities in a DBZ merge. She is effectively a new person were neither two branches exist anymore.

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The only reason Ranger-General Sylvanas is there at all now is because of their reunion at the end of 9.1, hence her initial refusal to acknowledge that this is her – a fact that Uther quickly rectifies. The Ranger-General wasn’t there along for the ride since Warcraft 3. It was just Sylvanas all along as per her own words, but without the catchy tune from Wandavision.

Every decision made over the years was one she made of her own volition under the fatalistic idea that it’s for the Greater Good, because destiny made her this way – except Jailer proved at the end of 9.1 that the cause she had adopted as an excuse to do evil :poop: was a lie. Doesn’t change the fact that she still did those things willingly.

Uther is the only actual authority we have on the matter, given how he’s actually been through this and we see him come to that realisation through his own eyes as we play as Uther in the reunion quest. There wasn’t an Evil Uther going around doing things; it was just him all this time and the reunion with this fragment just allowed him to perceive just how far he had fallen, but it didn’t automatically rid him of his crimes because “that was just my evil half what can you do :man_shrugging:

It is like Dog and God (good ending) from the award winning and critically acclaimed Dead Money by Joshua Sawyer. You wouldn’t get it.

Everything the cinematic suggests is also a convoluted mess to justify Sylvanas getting a redemption arc, and the whole hullabaloo about shattered souls and evil split / good split is a grotesque way of hand-waving away all responsibility from her.

Her character that we got to know, grew up with, saw her struggles and challenges, understood her motives and beliefs, and then were horrified by her actions are now just meant to be ignored and binned in favour of n(e)u(tered)-Sylvanas, who just goes ‘woobie me i guess i did this womp womp ):’ and 100% will end up with a redemption story instead of any wishful consequences we might have right now.

It’s not even about whether she had agency or will suffer consequences any more, it’s that this story is even developing when instead the best course of action would’ve just been to have her killed and the devs to stop inventing terrible lore like 9.2 in general.

You can just bet the Jailer will go ‘ha ha i actually planned sylvanas getting redeemed to lure you here into my trap mwahah’ at some point as well.

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The consensus atm is Ranger General and Banshee Queen are gone, and new Sylvanas is in as they merged together. Effectively a new person burdening the crimes of the previous.

Or Ranger General has completely taken over and the Banshee Queen was just a shell etc.

https://twitter.com/Ainastrasza/status/1468376774388207620
https://twitter.com/BenGrandblade/status/1468393076427161601
https://twitter.com/Valestrider/status/1468391490753744897

Currently reading US forums and Twitter about it.

Either way this is Blizz saying she is absolved from her crimes, but Sylvanas feels very, very guilty about it all.

Is it ethical to merge two souls? You are basically killing two people to create one.

True tbh

based to be honest, the more dead sylvanases the better

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I was about to make another pavement statement, but I realized I was fighting a fight I gave up on a long time ago.

What Pullo said. This is new Sylvanas but with the past of Banshee Sylvanas and the ‘moral uprightness’ of Ranger General combined with Nerathion’s statement… Convoluted mess to not have Banshee Sylvanas get what’s coming to her.

This will probably all just end up with ‘wowzee i guess we can’t kill u or jail u but u will have to live on with the memories of all you have done and feel sad about it’ so Sylvanas will mope and sit in a corner next to Baine.

Then Baine picks her up and slams her into the ground repeatedly like in that fake BfA leak which actually turns out to be a real leak only with the wrong side’s elf. Blizzard’s 12345D long con red herring redemption plan is revealed to be for Baine instead.

(A cheeky knock-off tune starts playing about how it was Baine all along)

This is dangerously cool

Remember when in War Crimes Sylvanas was genuinely aware that the big Tauren dude could easily snap her in two like a twig just by grabbing her arm and asserting mild dominance?

I 'member.

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The short of it is Uther began gaslighting RG Sylvanas into blaming herself for something Banshee Sylvanas did so they could merge and wake up to stop the Jailer.

Also Uther emphasizes Sylvanas has it worse because her wound goes deeper than his, and this implies he’s not as schitzo as Sylvanas as a result because he literally draws evil dark magic out of the wound (where his never had that).

At this point the best we can hope for is that Sylvanas’ sacrifices herself to defeat the Jailor, and is utterly destroyed.

She gets some kind of “redemption arc” while also being gone forever.

I’d be ok with that.

Have her play a part in helping us, then watch her enter the mists of Revendreth and a path towards redemption. It may be aeons before she gets there, but that is time she will get.

Then Kael’thas achieves ascension by burning her to crisp :rofl: with the Venthyr nodding at him with a smile.

I don’t think cheering on Ranger General Sylvanas’ continued torture is very kind. The Jailer put her in an tormented coma with the only way out being to bind herself to the very monster Zovaal created. Ranger General Sylvanas is now carrying the crimes of Banshee Sylvanas and all the guilt and suffering Ranger General Sylvanas is experiencing because of the insurmountable weight of Banshee Sylvanas’ actions.

Zovaal is getting exactly what he wants still in twisting Ranger General Sylvanas’ soul, this time by fusing her with an unforgivable mockery of what she was.

I feel like I’m living in the twilight zone when people say that cinematic was good.

The voice acting was bland. The animations were reused. At least one of the scenes was a green screen. It’s the same cut and paste ‘dramatic’ cinematic that we’ve seen a bajillion times before, except now it’s 3x longer than it should be because Blizzard would rather us watch 4-5 minutes of what could easily be a 10-15 minute in-game scenario.

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All I can do is be a broken record and repeat what’s been said before. There’s nothing wrong with the story beats themselves. The Sylvanas created by this fusion will not be the Sylvanas who was a pawn of the Jailer and committed all of those atrocities, therefore blame doesn’t lie with her. She is now her own independent person, with the knowledge and motivation required to put an end to the Jailer’s plans. Logically, there’s no reason to hold a grudge against this newborn entity.

… Except this came out of nowhere with Shadowlands, an expansion people have little emotion attachment to, whereas they care an awful lot about previous expansions. This doesn’t feel like a natural progression of her story, but an excuse invented to justify the continued existence of a fan favorite character.

Technically could be a good story, if only the writers were capable of making us care about it again. If Sylvanas dies, then I’ll go so far as to say that it is a good story - but if she comes out of this expansion with some slap-on-the-wrist penance that means she can continue to exist as a popular and marketable character, then I’ll just continue to view this entire plot arc of hers as corporate pandering.

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They’re copying the wrong parts of FFXIV without understanding what makes them work.

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I do wonder if asmon gets invited in2 the council. Probably not, but we’ll see.

Honestly same. I mean, it’s a pretty cinematic with nice models/animations but that’s… it?

The story is the same trash and I’m really getting tired of Blizzards VA of speak slowly… with… random… pauses… in each… sentence.

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