PTR Spoiler/Discussion Thread (Part 2)

Looking at it from a solely Gilneas vs Scarlet perspective, it makes sense that they’d consider worgen just as inhuman as the zombies.

From the overall situation around Lordareon, it’s disappointing that there’s a convenient Scarlet army in Gilneas to smooth the ELEPHANT STAMPEDE in the board-room between the Gilneas and Forsaken.

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Wasn’t Gilneas sporting a massive stockpile of weapons due to the rebellion? I swear it was brought up during the Worgen questline.

The same reason we got Void Elves - a fraction of a group of a race - when apparently High Elves would have been ‘impossible’.

Because.

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Just like how we’ve got nothing to go on about how or why someone would join the Primalists, I’d rather not write the story for Blizzard about how or why Humans are still continuously joining an extremist movement that is met with defeat and corruption at every turn… Like really, I can believe that a diehard group of people still proudly carrying the legacy and name of the Scarlet but c’mon, to be a regional or nation wide threat?

Moreover, I hope this won’t be a missed opportunity in having the PC, especially a human one being given the opportunity to join/infiltrate the Scarlet and get further insight.

Gilnean Renegades (they hate the Worgen curse), Worgen supremacists (they LOVE the Worgen curse), Forsaken Renegades (or are they? Inconclusive!), the restless ghosts of the dead (including Liam) who cry out for vengeance, Gilneans who want to again separate from the Alliance like Genn did after the Second War.

It’s not like we’re lacking for ideas on Gilnean-centric challenges to the land’s reclamation, but nah, lets go with Scarlets, who have had…uh…zero interaction with Worgen at any point previously, I believe?

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The Primalists are a different breed of extremist, as far as I’m concerned. It’s harder to justify why someone would seek to join them since there’s no real connection between those serving the cause and the end goal - a return to Azeroth ‘as intended’.

The Scarlet Crusade, however, at least has the proposed goal of reclaiming Lordaeron for humanity and purging the land of the undead. There’s a great many video games with that as a loose premise, with the characters seeking such a goal being framed as protagonists rather than antagonists.

I think the setting at large would have been far more intriguing if the writers were willing to admit that the goals of the Scarlet Crusade were actually legitimate and heroic whilst also acknowledging the desire of the Forsaken to not want to just be displaced or wiped out. Written well, it could have easily led to a stalemate where neither faction managed to quite succeed at eliminating the other.

I’m not afraid to admit it, if zombies existed in the real world and they killed and consumed the corpses of my family I wouldn’t seek to forgive them no matter how ‘redeemed’ or ‘apologetic’ they were especially if they had periods where they decided to go right back to doing that very same thing.

I really wish more fantasy settings would do away with the infantile ‘everybody has to be friends and anyone who doesn’t want to be friends must die’ approach that has come to plague the industry of late.

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On one hand, Scarlets constantly spawning new armies doesn´t really make sense.
On the other, it´s fun to see Scarlets appearing again and again and again and again despite some RPers saying how it´s lorebreaking to RP them because they got destroyed in WotLK/Cata/MoP/Legion.

Now give me Dark Horde back, my Blackrocks yearn for blood.

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To be fair, if we look at the real world for inspiration, certain regions of the world are constantly ‘spawning’ new organisations to respond to historical grievances that took place many decades or even centuries earlier.

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There’s a little book of grudges, in every body.

NGL at this point a new Dark Horde could be sweet to see. Maybe the swathes of Horde members who are pro-Faction War and would rather make their own thing than rely on the limp-wristed leadership of the Horde Council.

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I believe this massive stockpile is a couple of cannons in a basement

They had some notes about siding with worgens because they also hated the forsaken, but they also planned to murder the worgens after their shared enemy was dealt with

It was the same series of in-game pamphlets that spoke about a true heir to the throne or something.

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I’d say the Americans had become self aware, but…

Naaaah.

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On one hand it would be interesting to see how a new Dark Horde that split off from modern Horde would look, but on the other, I feel like the appeal of Dark Horde is that it´s effectively Warcraft 2 Horde and adding in undead, blood elves, tauren or even (God forbid) vulpera would shatter that theme.

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The circus show here :clown_face:
Is how the scarlet indeed come back as a creditable threat after taking so many Ls world wide.
In classic we take the sword to their leader, sure they are defeated. alas
In Wrath we chase them out of the eastern kingdoms, hunt them down in the frozen north and we assault them daily “until every last one is dead” surely now they are dead? alas.
In cata we learn they have build/taken over military outposts all around tirisfal and with the help of “my edgy DnD character” Voss we dismantle them from the inside, surely now they are all dead? alas
It was in legion we went there to purge them all and take their greatest asset Whitemane, killing them to a man, surely THIS time? alas.
They returned again and the forsaken need cut a bloody path through countless scarlet fanatics, removing champions and leaders alike, surely this time they were run down to a man?. ALAS!

I cannot wait to once again hand out Ls to a faction that is more persistent than the bloody Burning Legion.
Because we clearly don’t have any other NORF! faction with hostile attitudes towards the horde and the alliance.
The Syndicate, who are they? never heard of them.

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Can’t say I’d mind or question whether the other new races were added into the mix (given how there are Vulpera, Nightborne, Mag’har and Highmountain Primalist crazies), along with them replacing some of the Old Dark Horde member races, but I know that’d remove the old Dark Horde aesthetic and theme.

Still I’d find it more interesting than a rehashed Dark Horde, particularly if their motivation is solid and not just some motivational speaker swaying the dregs of the New Horde to become terrorists.

I imagine some diehard Garrosh loyalists could bulk their forces.
adding orc supremist to the faction would certainly give it spice.

I’d say anyone with a better memory than a goldfish can have very solid reasons why they’d want to genocide the Alliance as Horde members. If we can have Draenei consciously deciding to join the Primalists or the Twilight’s Hammer cult then we can have embittered Horde members of any race deciding that yet another war is a good idea.

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If I recall right, Crowley indeed smuggled a ton of weapons into the city, but I believe they used those at the Gilneas Cathedral to hold off the worgen while the people escaped. Mostly cannons and the lot.

My personal headcanon for this reason… they took a page out of Whitemane’s playbook and have a horde of inquisitors. Bare thighs attract lives! It’s working for the Argent Crusade too!

I mean she was the poster girl
and she no doubt raised spirits (and bodies) for the scarlet until we made her a death knight.

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There is a dialogue flavour text if you talk with Deathstalker Commander Belmont in the Forsaken Heritage Quest that literally answers it. Paraphrased and shortened, humans as they are need little excuse to take up arms against the undead, be it for real or self-perceived reasons - and that even then, you have to add into the mix the sheer amount of psychopaths and many other unsavory kinds of people who just need an excuse to engage in such violence.

Every so often, a remnant of the old Scarlet Crusade pops up and starts spewing some more propaganda, gets some members goaded into ‘glory’ through propaganda, and they get crushed. The only remarkable part about these Scarlet Crusaders in particular is that they managed to teleport (with considerable numbers to boot) to Fenris Isle, fully armed to the teeth with siege weapons.

The Northgate Rebellion smuggled all kinds of weapons into the city, and there is mention of how there are secret arsenals throughout the entire city that were never discovered. The cannons used in Gilneas’ Cathedral Square are just a few of many.

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