PTR Spoiler/Discussion Thread (Part 2)

Argent Dawn
704

I can think of a clear motive for the mortal Primalists.

The Titans have always treated Azeroth as nothing more than another potential Titan, to be incubated and protected until she’s ready to be born. Any life that exists on her surface is nothing more than a by-product. In fact, such lifeforms are so insignificant in the eyes of the Titans that there are multiple countermeasures put in place to wipe everything out in order to prevent the corruption of Azeroth.

Even lifeforms like the Aspects are nothing more than custodians put in place to protect Azeroth until she’s ready to awaken and join the Pantheon.

I can understand why some people would react to the discovery of this grand plan and their irrelevance in the greater scheme of things with irrational anger. Azeroth is more than just a nascent Titan, it’s home to countless living things and it’s wrong of the Titans to not value their lives. Therefore, it’s only right for the inhabitants of Azeroth to fight against the Pantheon and strive to rid their world of Titanic machinations.

It’s not a very wise course of action, nor is it canon, but I can understand some inhabitants of Azeroth not being very happy with the Titans or their servants.

4 Likes
705

Oh, I forgot there were a few that left the Horde alongside Sylvanas…

God awful character aswell. So much potential, and they went with whatever they are doing with her now…

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706

Pretty good. All it then needs is a promise (non-Titan Azeroth will be a paradise/you will have great power/your wife will not die in childbirth) or a possible existential threat (what if Azeroth emerges one day and destroys us all?) and you´re golden.
Now if only we got that from Blizzard.

707

Some of them could probably delude themselves into thinking that Azeroth would be a world of sunlit uplands, if only it wasn’t for Titanic influence. Basically everything bad that ever happened to Azeroth (aside from the Old Gods and the Black Empire) happened directly or indirectly because of their actions.

That seems like a logical thing to be worried about. There’s no information about what happens to the inhabitants of a nascent Titan once the Titan awakens, so there’s always the possibility that the denizens of Azeroth would just die once she wakes up.

But really, this is all just headcanon and a bunch of deductions based on the very little information we have about the Primalists. I doubt that Blizzard will ever provide anything concrete.

708

Pretty much. Headcanon is a great way to fill in the small gaps in a story, and speculating on things is lifeblood of fantasy fandoms, but if gaps are all there is, maybe the author just wasn´t doing his job properly.

1 Like
709

I like to think the Alliance managed to put two and two together once Katrana Prestor, clearly a relative of the missing Daval Prestor, was outed as Oynxia.

710

acuthrkluthaklully it was pointed out in the missive Nathanos drops to Loyalist players in the Baine rescue scenario that Sylvanas arranged for Nathanos to compile the Nazjatar forces out of those whose loyalties were suspect so that they’d be wiped out by Azshara.

So, like, literally, yes. She was using the potential rebels as cannon fodder.

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711

Shaw: nah I’m sure they’re unrelated.

:sunglasses:

712

I very much agree here.

Well, no, we do. Leaving aside Chronicles, In Lordaeron there was a lot of discontent with the population at large, Kel’Thuzad had an easy way recruiting them.

The Cult has a mission, an identity, and a “who”: we know they are born in Lordaeron and would later spread beyond Azeroth.

I also think the Cult came at a time when world building for a faction wasn’t as required as it is now, because back then we didn’t know what is going on. We didn’t know all of Lordaeron, and we were following a single character. But now we do know taurens, night elves etc. What are their drives, how did they even come to be?

While I am glad BFA is past us, Syelia does have a point. There is very little continuity between characters, with some turning into brutal faction war machines for a patch, then turning back into a quiet peace-lover.

Absolutely.
The Primalists aren’t awful villains considering the latest expansions, and story-wise I consider DF an upgrade from SL and BFA, but the Primalists are all but a coherent entity and it shows.

Let’s not defend Blizzard’s bad writing, because when it will be about relevant characters rather than throw-away villains, you will suffer.

1 Like
713

Technically, alliance started the war, but let’s not gloss over semantics.

Anyway, my 2 cents:

Dragonflight has, save for a few bumps here and there, all makings of a good expansion.

  • It has great gameplay systems, both for the casuals and the hardcore gamers.
  • It has decent class design (far better than either Legion, BFA or SL).

That already puts it in the top list of expansions. You could have an awful story or awful setting but if the gameplay and classes are solid, then the game is solid.

Which is funnily enough also where the expansion falls short. The Story, and what I think most importantly, the relatability.

Like Elenthas has said, I also really like the primalists as antagonists. Their goals and reasons are sound and they are big enough nuisance to call for the adventurers’ intervention.

What I to this date do not understand is why do we care what is going on with the dragons? Why are we invested to helping these dragons and the isles?

Simply from the good of our heart? Really? The same adventurer who will kill a family of kobolds if they get a green quality item?

Ah, but we need them to fight the primalists and the primal incarnates…! Except that, we don’t. That was already shown with the first interaction with Alex and Raza after their fight.

Why should I care about empowering the dragons again?
Why should I care about making the isles safer or better or w/e?
Why should I care about getting involved in the internal affairs / drama of dragons, be it about who is going to be the next aspect, who is supposed to follow whose orders and so forth?

All in all, if there is one critique that holds water in regards to Dragonflight, it’s that it feels extremely disconnected.

It feels disconnected from the world. You could say that this is by design, it was shrouded away for several thousands of years after all- Except that, So was Pandaria. And Pandaria felt intimately connected to Azeroth, because it brought the Horde vs Alliance conflict with it, in addition to the underlying threats that would follow (Sha, Thunder King, Old god). It felt like WoW.

Dragonflight feels like a Hearthstone expansion to me, that is actually the closest thing I can associate it with. Both in good and bad way.

3 Likes
714

That’s actually part of the premise of a Warcraft 5e campaign I’m playing: an Infinite dragon has coerced our characters into service to help him destroy the unborn Azeroth titan before she awakens and cracks the world open like an egg shell.

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715

I find the Primalists quite refreshing because they don’t behave like they are villains despite how very messed up their actions are.
they seem entirely convinced they are doing something good and is saving us.

for a faction that is basically twilight’s hammer 2.0, now with less old gods.
its quite nice to have a hostile villain faction that don’t twirl their mustachos and kidnap damsels to put them on train tracks.
the only major problem so far I have is their origin.
they got most other things nailed down, enough to satisfy me at least.

I can make the case, you don’t care, but since you want to explore their island and since you are fancy pants big champion hero commander maw-walker order hall boss guy, you easily get roped into dealing with everyones garbage.

716

Less Old Gods so far.

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717

We are going underground soon, and that is usually where all the ancient horrors and forgotten evils lair… soo :poop: here we go again I guess?

718

I wrote a big spiel about what I want and where I think the game needs to go in a direction narratively, but I largely feel like I was having a cheeky tinkle into the Atlantic with what it would contribute to the discussion.

The setting needs to breathe and develop, they did very little with the time skip. However, I ultimately don’t really think this is the sort of world building Blizzard are interested in at the moment (if at all). Like you said, it feels very Hearthstone, I’m just worried that:

“Oh look a new island appeared with this new menace, lets team up and save the good (and considerably better looking) version of EK/Kalimdor baddies there!!!”

Becomes the new sales cycle. I just want the game to move on from it’s 13 year stagnancy, I don’t really know if it’ll happen either. Especially after Exploring Kalimdor was the embarrassment it was.

I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong with Dragonflight being an expansion that’s a side-jaunt, seeding something for the future but… I’d rather its formula not become the norm. Not when the rest of the setting will likely be static or decay for the forseeable.

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719

loot

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720

I like to think dragonflight is a nice breath of fresh air.
so far we don’t have a big bad evil guy out to conquer/destroy the world/universe/multiverse.

the primal incarnates are little more than just a rival gang of dragons looking for payback, its hardly another jailer level threat
and we are not borrowing power in the same vain as in many past expansions, nor are we put in charge of any big operation.

we came to the island to explore it for treasure and loot, and because we are brainless monkies hardwired to help anyone asking us nicely we end up helping the dragons with their turf war.
time will tell if we have a big bad later down the line, but so far its a nice breather.
and I wouldn’t mind it becoming a norm to just focus on exploring new lands for a while, and deal with whatever we find.

The faction war can turn to a rivalry with some bloody encounters if you wanna keep PVP a viable IC thing, but for once we are not stagnant in some conflict or other just to team up later and kickass.

they are taking steps to change them game to become less red vs blue focused with recent updates and future updates allowing horde and alliance to even join the same guilds.

721

For sure it feels a lot more low-risk, mind you the Incarnates winning will likely be devastating for Azeroth.

It isn’t even really about faction conflict for me, because there will always be antagonism between the factions and the races that can be leaned into. I just want an updated Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms and for things to move on from the timelock of either Cataclysm or - with some zones - Vanilla.

722

Yes a world update would be welcome surprise. and not only because this expansion is low key about restoring and healing the scars we have suffered so far.
the cata content from a game design perspective is outdated, many of their technics and tricks have evolved to far better methods and their quest design is not all memes and poop jokes any longer.

However I would likewise see a focus on updating the other old zones as well
northrend has been stuck in time, and the best part is they don’t even have to scrap what is already there, their phase tech could allow an entire new expansion to take place on an up to date northrend while keeping an old version for chrome time available.

723

Well that’s the issue isn’t it.

Who has the best loot?
Epic monsters.
Where can most loot be found?
In big treasure hoards.

And as it turns out, dragons check the box on each one of those.

So, as Thuzar points out:

Why don’t we just kill the dragons? Why don’t we turn the dragon isles into a colony for either of our factions? or better yet, ourselves?

That’s what Pandaria was, after all. A pristine, beautiful land where there was plenty to go around for everyone. And 5 minutes in, Both Horde and Alliance turn it into a new stage of war and battle for resources.