Isn’t that what a retcon is?
We actually don’t know when and where Brother Korloff met the pandaren who taught him monkhood, only that the Scarlet Crusade existed when it did.
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The scarlet monastery had fist fighting monks who kicked and punched
then the risen monk who were scarlet were added in cata.
they all outdate the pandaren introduction.
While this is true, we do know he learned it from ambassadors as they travelled through Azeroth.
Its an odd choice of words to use ambassador instead of adventurer if this was prior to The mists fading.
Human Monks came about after a Pandaren Monk taught (a) Human, who in turn taught the Scarlet Monks we see in the Scarlet Dungeons.
Draenei Monks have retro-actively been a thing since TBC, when a Pandaren Monk was traveling Azuremyst Isle’s when he saw the Exodar crash!
So lorewise; Humans and Draenei probably have been the longest races to be Monks, aside from the Pandaren and other Pandaria races
retcon
noun
(in a film, television series, or other fictional work) a piece of new information that imposes a different interpretation on previously described events, typically used to facilitate a dramatic plot shift or account for an inconsistency.
They all outdate pandaren introduction (not really, we had Chen in Warcraft 3), but if the lore was retroactively changed, then Korloff could have been taught by pandaren before he went on to teach these other monks.
How is it? The Wandering Isle is still there, if a group of pandaren left it, they could fancy themselves ambassadors from the Wandering Isle.
The real flaw with this whole idea of pandarenised Scarlet monks is the Crusade’s xenophobia.
Its uncertain if the lore was changed.
do you know for certain that it was?
or did humans just have fighting monks?
its not like they use chi or anything, they are just extra punchy and do round house kicks.
Ambassador:
an accredited diplomat sent by a state as its permanent representative in a foreign country.
The Wandering isles did not strike me as having sent any ambassadors to the mainland to maintain ties and relations permanently.
Its a lot of what ifs and maybes until I find a piece of lore that gives me some actual facts.
Who were these ambassadors? when were they?
did Korloff learn pandaren monk style before or after he joined the scarlet crusade?
Why would the scarlet even entertain the idea of pandarenised monk style?
You are putting more thought into it than Blizzard did.
I don’t think their thought process went any deeper than “Monks are a class now, cool. Let’s add a monk enemy here to show it off.”
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Do I know for certain? No. But it seems like it. It would make sense given the lack of human monks mentioned elsewhere, at least of the fighting variety displayed in Classic who just so happens to resemble pandaren style monks very much. They just lack Chi that wasn’t a thing in the lore until MoP.
ambassador
noun
a representative or promoter of a specified activity.
“he is a good ambassador for the industry”
It does not always refer to something so official, a pair of pandaren who approach someone can still be described as an ambassador. We are also talking about Blizzard here, it’s not exactly going to be so realistic.
Pandaren travellers.
At some point after the Scarlet Crusade was created.
Brother Korloff first learned of the monk’s deadly arts from pandaren ambassadors as they journeyed through Azeroth. When the crusader demonstrated this martial style to his superiors, they unanimously ordered Korloff to train an entire generation of initiates in the ways of the monk.
That is the real question. They wouldn’t have, but they did.
Fact.
The only “Fact” I have uncovered is that North Human kingdoms, probably just Lordaeron, had a combat monk that used kicks and fists.
As they exist in both the scarlet, the argent and as ghosts in their old areas of Hillsbard.
If a pandaren came to Lordaeron and taught them at some point or if they had their own style is debatable.
but there is enough enemy NPCs with the monk name who use fists, to confirm humans from Lordaeron had monks in one way or another.
Yeah but it doesn’t tackle the obvious elephant in the room. Shamanism upholds and values connections, balance, life. To draenei culture, fel magic should be highly controversial to say the least.
Yet, he’s all “well fel magic can still make me good at killing demons, it’s not like there is a baggage of problems with it and how it clashes against my culture, naaaah.”
The average draenei doesn’t subscribe to the ways and teachings of shamanism though as it’s believed to get in the way of worshipping the Light. At least that was the case in TBC, which is (as far as I’m aware) the last time it was mentioned.
Nobody tell these forum posters Blizzard doesn’t care about lore.
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Yeah how dare we find enjoyment in discussion. Silly us.
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Oh, yeah, even if Big Daddy Velen was all “no, no, it’s cool guys.”
But with fel it should be different. And if for the average draenei shamanism is a problem, what about fel?!
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Totally with you there. Just wanted to point out that shamanism might not be the strongest foundation to stand on to argue against fel-use among the draenei.
I for one still welcome all classes for all races though. Us roleplayers will always find a way to fit the race/class combos into the lore somehow. We’re clever like that.
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Who are now pandaren style monks using Chi.
And these might very well be the same; their abilities, base they might be as they were added years before MoP, are in line with Chi wielding monks.,
Who are no longer even in the game.
They did to the Scarlets.
Which sounds so similar to the pandaren kind of monks they might very well be that. These basic NPCs and ideas of what a monk was in Classic became the Chi wielding martial artists we see in MoP.
Again this is nothing but speculations.
We do not have confirmation and so either case is likely.
Though the idea that the church of light adopting pandaren fighting and taught it to their members is slightly more likely since we have a dubious time frame for when exactly the pandaren ambassadors travelled Azeroth.
It would circle around to a past argument that humans and their allies had access to monk training prior to Mist, unlike some of the allied races.
I always assumed Korloff was also abroad (like the Scarlets in Desolace and Northrend) when he came across the Pandaren, learned the basics of being a monk and then returned to the monastery to showcase his more Scarlet Crusade-y spin on it.
Mostly because I doubt the same ambassadors would have set foot in the Monastery and if they did then it wouldn’t have been Korloff only learning from them.
It’s silly to imagine that Velen send his people into a massive and millenia long exile not because Fel corrupts, destroys and perverses anything it touch until it’s not longer recognizable and because a God was launching a cleansing Crusade of all life in the universe using it… But just because of the second reason now… Velen is now cool with Fel Magic, the reason that should make any Draenei who likely went through PTSD inducing events shake with barely contained Wrath.
That is if we assume the pandaren didn’t make this visit at a point in time before the 3rd war.
Friendly reminder that the Auchenai had monks without (obviously) any contact with pandaren.
I think it sounds more than plausible that the Scarlet Crusade had some sort of similar Light-version of monks prior to Korloff adding the pandaren touch to it.