They don’t really make sense tbh. You don’t get to do a 25k year rampage than feel bad about it imo.
also the rp ones keep hiding behind the cathedral which is just -weird-
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Lothraxion was a microcosm version of the same trope, and few people seemed to mind it at the time of Legion.
My issue with the Penitents isn’t the lore at all, but rather how some who portray (or even interact with) them gloss over the gravity of their sins. They basically make Scourge, Illidari, warlocks and war criminals seem like budding amateurs.
RP accordingly, I beg.
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Given how Xe’ra was going to forcibly Lightforge Illidan, a fair few people may/will have assumed that this is exactly what happened to Lothraxion, and that his conversion was not done willingly, just more successfully. Him saying “the Light redeemed me” can definitely be read that way, if you wanted to.
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Lol. Lmao. They’re in Stormwind, RPing? 
This, but this has been a gripe of mine for years now. How for some reason people who have done horrible things, against their wills or not, are for some reason to be seen equal to any other random, innocent, civilian.
No, your Death Knight does not like to hang out in taverns, drinking with his mates and telling cool war-stories. No you cannot take your Illidari GF out for a lovely picnic at the shores of the Second Well of Eternity and no, your Void Elf friend, who has a side-gig as a bartender, is not a super lovely and social person.
So no, its not a man’ari Eredar problem, its a second life RPers problem 
Doesn’t Lightforging only works when your mind is willing? I only ever done the LFD quest for the achievement, but don’t people literally die when they go through the progress with even a sliver of doubt?
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As a group they really do make you question why there isn’t a Nuremberg style trial. I’m sure these guys have done or witnessed similar act to Garrosh’s war crimes and should trialed with the same harshness.
”I was just following orders!” “I didn’t oppose anything because I would have died if I did!”
Compelling arguments, now on your knees while my Crystalmace channels the righteous wrath of the Light!
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I was under the impression his ‘redemption’ was less actual redemption vs brainwashed snd forced servitude.
And given we see the crazy windchime try that with illidan.. well theres a history.
I would guess not given what Xe’ra was doing to Illidan. Assuming it’s the same process as the Lightbound in AU Draenor, there was the Light being forced onto the orcs there too.
Lets not try and get real life-styled trials and what not back into Azeroth, where genocide is a daily occurance and world ending threats and intergalactic cosmic threats aren’t even weird anymore.
The book Warcrime is a Warcrime in and of itself.
Also I am sure you would oppose your evil, magic, alien god, who had burned thousands upon thousands of worlds in his crusade before he even got to your shop. But unlike you, Jed’di the Argus baker just wants to survive with his family and by accident he wasn’t invited to the evacuation bus out of there, so now he was stuck between getting himself and his family killed, or just drinking the fel juice and bidding the time when his mind-reading overlord died. (Also the story about the Penitent also added some depth to the Man’ari, otherwise we had a handfull who rejected and the rest of the planet just went “yea this God is right, lemme drink the feljuice and genocide the universe” who just removes… Any layer of nuance we all yearn for, no?)
Mind I am not saying the Man’ari are innocent, in any stretch. They all did horrible and evil things. And Arza’kal even mentions they will probably never be forgiven for all the sins and transgressions they have committed, rightfully so, yet he and the Penitent he personally vouches for, will like to start to make amends in any possible way. Even if it takes them longer then an eternity.
Fair enough. I do remeber the progress not working when you’re unwilling or having a sliver of doubt, but perhaps thats when there is no Naaru involved, since the LFD became available when Xe’ra was already dead and the LFD is a Exodar Draenei going through the process!
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Just so we know why the Penitents only came around now and not earlier:
>Over time, they grew horrified by the bloodshed and ashes left in the Legion’s wake, but continued to serve due to fearing for their own life more than their sin, since Kil’jaeden had a way of invading the mind. Any doubt would have been known to the Deceiver, which he considered as betrayal and therefore punishable by death.
So yeah, even thinking like that could get you killed. And honestly, that adds alot of “humanity” to the (man’ari) Eredar, a species that originally weren’t demons at all.
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Just so you know, they would’ve let Garrosh walk away scot free.
Also, forums are bieng all wonky, any idea whats going on anyone?
100% a reasonable option.
People and even animals have a thing called survival instinct and not everyone would choose their own death, and those of their family and loved ones over randoms they’ve never met and will never know.
This just amounts to “Let’s not talk about it” which is IMO much worse. This is a planet sized Elekk being ignored here. It’s really not better. If your skepticism and desire to sweep this under the rug is born out of genuine doubt that Blizz could do justice to this, then fair. They could just as much bring it up (which they did) and just move past this omnicidal branch of the Eredar (which they have).
ItsOkGuysTheySaidTheyreSorry.pnj
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“I killed millions over thousands of years so I wouldn’t be killed” is not a reasonable option. It’s a cop out.
Honestly nobody of any right mind should want anything to do with them, they’ve shown that they are the sort of person who would throw an entire universe under the bus for their own wellbeing.
That’s… honestly a horrible person to have on your side.
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It’s almost ghoulish that it’s the Krokuul who sponsor them in the first place. The people who had front seat to all of it. Lothraxion would have made a bit more sense.
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So what you’re saying is that anyone that wants to do anything with Saurfang, and many older orcs, are actually hanging out with orcs that would throw an entire world and multiple species under the bus for their own wellbieng?
Why do get half-demon orcs a free pass (humans are evil for Internment Camps) but then you don’t extend the same courtesy to the Penitents?
When is it alright to get redemption? You kill a thousand innocents and it’s fine, but hundred thousands and you are irredeemably evil?
Invade one world? Forgiveable.
Invade ten worlds? Never forgive.
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Dude… Omni-freakin’-cide. Over millenias. A succession of choices, daily choices. Not a even a background plan for when the Legion is to fall or sabotaging efforts.
We’re not even saying that they should have commited Sepuku. The will to live is strong in everyone but they did nothing to undermine the Legion, even when their world was directly sieged.
The Eredar penitents are one of the worst introduced sub-races in the game, period.
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I really don’t think you grasp the sheer scale of the legion in this regard.
Literally mind reading leaders that would execute you if they got even a whiff of doubt from you. Yeah, you are saying they should’ve commited suicide by Leader.
“Oh but the Deciever died” yeah, and resistence isn’t build within a day, sometimes not even within a few years. It takes time to find allies, any step could be your last one.
Literally impossible to grasp, for anyone.
I just think it is kind of hypocritical to make the Penitents adhere to standards that you don’t hold other races too. I assume you think orcs deserve a chance at, or even already got redeemed?
There are many orcs that drank the demonblood to survive, and those that didn’t still did horrible things to survive (Frostwolves, Doomhammer). Why would they then deserve redemption and the Penitents don’t?
If like Raynardo you think that the difference is just time and amount then I think we can just stop argueing over it because to me it makes no difference wether you kill a million or a billion, (try to) destroy one world or a hundred, you’re still a mass murderer, and evil is evil and if you think one is redeemable and the other not than you’re applying double-standards.
(besides the point but, majority of man’ari are still quite happy bieng evil demons, and it is just a minority that is Penitent and want to make amends if possible).
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My last post on this topic so thread isn’t further derailed.
So they had doubts prior to KJ’s fall so either KJ also realized that they were too cowardly to rebel or they gaslit themselves into buying into the whole Burning Crusade so hard that it only broke when he died. This further augments the sheer immorality of the Penitents. Still doesn’t excuse why when the mind-reading dude died they didn’t do anything.
Kinda the point. They are beyond traditional morality and yet we have to approach them as such and if we do, they are utterly irredeemable, even entertaining being around them should be an act no one should entertain outside of the Warlocks in the Dreadscar who are at best opportunistic and at worse completely amoral.
Also stop bringing up the Orcs. I was there when the discussions of how they should have been dealt with to begin with instead of interment camps or even post “Draenor is free!” I would grant them a similar treatment to the Penitents but not across all clans and individuals. All Penitents however, deserve no such mercy.
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I don’t quite understand why you think this would work in any way shape or form as a beginning to anyone’s redemption. It’s not even mind control, it’s someone so heinously cowardly that they would comply with twenty-thousand years of genocide across the galaxy rather than risk their own neck.
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