10/10 raider wishlist here:
- make trash take less time but keep in mind vortexes droprate (in case of removal as your attempt)
- make vashj less rng
- make raid easier accessible; aka nerf attune
Real problems are not difficulty of bosses.
Problems are 1st getting to endboss as most ppl tend to raid 2 days/week for 3-4 hours each. If its 3, thats 6 hours to kill all bosses and trash which is the hardest part in killing vashj/kael tbh.
2nd is recruiting. People come and go or reroll. Thats fine. Make it easier for them.
The above are changes which are actually required to keep tbcc rading szene healthy.
Aside from that, I personally would not mind nerfing everything to the ground, and/or better, just release p3 soon.
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The original nerfs to trash would at this point be the biggest gain for many guilds that are still working on the last boss(es).
A more rigid timer on murloc spawn could be good, but thats personally just not liking that one fight that requires a certain amount of AoE classes while every other fight you’re much less locked in to a setup.
A normal guild spends less time in combat on trash than on bosses.
Any guild with issues of spending massive amounts of time on trash compared to bosses are probably plagued with leeches that afk or put no effort into trash.
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Thats the equivalent of changing the 100m dash into a 50m dash halfway through the olympic games, because one of the contestants broke his leg but you want to be able to give him a participationtrophy and 50m is the best he can do.
It’s more like removing the obstacles from the dash course and turning off the lawn sprinklers that make everything slippy. People keep complaining about how this would remove their chance of beating the original. I’m sorry to tell you but these aren’t the original encounters from 2.0. We have 2.4 talents, formulas and itemization and those bosses received several hotfixes between 2.0 and 2.1.
However from a competitive point of view this should be clearly distinguishable as a phase.
These changes should be part of a phase 2.5 so a new partition in wclogs could be made and every record will stand for it’s raid tuning.
Phase 2.5 - Quality of Raids
- Remove 25% of trash HP in SSC and TK but keep number and abilities - they will stil be a PITA but you get time for bosses
- Increase trash respawn time by 50% and stop respawn advance timer while in encounter (so no trash respawns during encounter) - to keep max vortex/hour rate roughly the same in case someone farms it
- Implement attunement scrolls to SSC/TK on trash loottable (and remove attunement on p3) - to help with raid roster composition on alts
- Make Vashjs MC CC’able - to reduce RNG
- Reduce Morogrim murlocs HP or increase minimum Earthquake cooldown - to reduce RNG
- Reduce KT phase 1 subboss hp - to make that boring rp-fight take less time
- Reduce heroic key requirement to honored - to help with alt gearing
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I think nerfs should only happen when the next tier comes out. Raids need to be tough.
Bugs should be addressed before nerfs.
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last time you logged keal, according to logs:
you started 9:14pm
finished 10:36pm
so about 82min
time on bosses ~ : 5+2,40+2,40+10=20min20sec
rest is time on trash ~ : 61min 40sec
tell me thats not a “massive amount on trash compared to bosses”
plus you are a guild with pretty solid comp and logs.
Must be really hard for you to imagine how much ppl struggle with trash that are not even 10/10 yet right?
my last guild run (thursday) TK+SSC
2,785.8s encounter combat time
3,125.1s trash combat time.
(we are also going out of our way and clearing warcraftlogs requirements)
this is a split run btw with people playing alts with one brainhalf and afking.
why do you think trash and bosses aren’t a hurdle to overcome rather something that is supposed to be brought down to a level where anyone can do it with little to no effort?
I dont know if I rly need to repeat myself. Guess you are able to scroll and read? idk
Imho you are rly just confusing garbage time wasting on boring trash with ‘a hurdle to overcome’
I personally couldnt care less if its 50/50 or 90/10 time on trash/boss. Its just that casual ppl struggle to get to endbosses in time. Cant kill them. Stop playing. And if they want to nerf something, which they obviously do, then I would rather have them nerf the boring trash rather then the bosses.
Do you not?
You know we can see your logs, right?
Why even bother to lie? Kekw
You spent 2 hours, in each raid. A far cry from 70 minutes for BOTH raids. It’s more like 240 minutes. 
Also, you wiped 3 times on Vashj.
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i find any kind of progression boring as it just relies on getting the dumbest people through it, so id sugggest u go to a better guild. some people whoever enjoy progression and for em it is a hurdle to overcome.
Trash is basically as difficult as bosses, we and a lot of guilds may have a couple deaths on vashj if it is a bad raid night but trash deaths are common.
The raids are basically on par with vanilla raids in terms of difficulty. any kind of nerf just turns it into draged out loot pinatas. Instead of nerfing it they should just add lootboxes at that point
edit: adding mass ressurection, removing trash entirely or removing corpse runs are also good solutions to this problem these ppl putting 3 hours into the game per week and demanding to clear all content have
and why should you clear the raid if your guild/raid is too bad? how about good old l2p? get better get big items.
there are more raids with 10/10 than 8/10 or 9/10. if they are not willing to improve and rather quit because they cant kill 1 boss so what?
bad guilds always died and new ones are born
Just bring in some nerf so the plebs (me) have a chance to gear up and get ready for next tier.
Let the elite 10/10 from d1… clear it evey faster, so they dont have to do the grind… eveyrweek.
Implement dungeoendifficulty… let the elite guilds that only have 8/10 up until now… choose if they want to conquer the prenerf, or if they just want to get a clear.
No nerfs until the next phase as planned, please. This looks like a panic decision due to WoW-wide attrition.
Half of guilds are at 10/10 cleared (including counting pug runs that are logged as a guild)
72% are at 8/10 and have plenty to farm until Phase 3.
These numbers by modern standards are extremely high. Catering to the minority that wants easier content and are driven by instant gratification is going against everything Classic was supposed to stand for, and what made it immensely popular in the first place.
Phase 3 is not too far. Please hold on to your promises.
Thank you.
2 Likes
Just a question how can
and
be true at the same time? seems like someone is comming up with their own numbers here, not saying I have any true numbers but 50+72 is 122 and we dont have more than 100% of guilds existing.
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87% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
How do I know that? Simple, I made it up on the spot.
his wording was just not perfect. He meant 72% of all guilds are at least 8/10 while 50% are 10/10 (10/10 are included in ‘at least 8/10’ as well as ‘at least 9/10’)
But anyway @riv: I dont think that it does make anything better just cos there is a high clear percentage
He probbably ment that but seeing as not everyone are looking at those number at all times he could have also ment that 72% have atleast 8/10 and out of those half have 10/10 or he could have been badly been makeing up numbers but im guessing you are right about what he ment tbh
It seems like everyone thinks 8/10 guilds are there because they struggle with attendance. I am in an 8/10 guild and we have never had an issue with attendance so I felt it worthwhile to speak up.
After 3 nights on Vashj (approximately 30 wipes)
Night 1: Lacking ranged, striders tough.
Night 2: Getting to P3 but not getting much practice in.
Night 3: P2 consistently smooth, best attempt is 15%.
If she is nerfed at this point we will easily kill her and that will feel like quite a hollow victory.
I guess there are plenty guilds at all different levels (some will only kill vashj in P5) and they will all view the idea of nerfs differently. Personally I would prefer if bosses stayed the same level forever. In retail nerfs may need to happen because the bosses are untested, but for classic this really isn’t the case.
Tune the bosses and keep them at that level for the duration of the expansion, nerfs are a net negative for the community.
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although after some quick napkin maths its more like 1/3 guilds that have cleared 10/10 acording to warcraft logs progression stats (atleast in both europe and the us in asia the game is to diffrent to be considered for this with things like the token being in the game)
Thats pretty interesting insight, ty and good luck on vashj 
May I ask you a question?
(not meant to be rude I promise, just want to know)
How comes you only had 3 nights on vashj with the content out for months?