No, M+ was all about min/max BiS stats around HC raid ilvl. And now they lowered it thats will kill any reason to do M+. They just want everyone to raid. M+ chest always had garbage drop, since it was introduced.
I do; Keystones are a raiding alternative, not a supplement. If anything, I think the weekly cache should be reworked to a way to narrow down your loot pool to get something more desirable than a way to get a single instance of higher item level gear.
The cap of gear in keystones should be at 20, not 15, and should be equal to Mythic loot at that level. Itās not a level people can just farm unless they are as good as Mythic raiders, and it rids us of this dumb notion that keystones are just something to do once a week to guarantee the cache.
I wouldnāt bet on this not happening. There is some gear which had equip effects only working in raids, and also a slight possibility that along with pvp vendors we might get pvp power back. So itās possible they might go that route.
but from what i see making that for m+ push u will need to carry most of gear from raid from last 2 bosses and maybe trinkets from m+ is SLAP to ppl who wants to do m+ , what is point of playing game few hours per week when is raid time
I still remember people complaining when we had Resilience stats in TBC:
āMy hard earned gear is not effective in PVP.ā
This will never change.
People that Raid still want to go and kill players in PVP.
This problem could easily been avoided if Raiders would just stick to Raiding and PVP had his own gearing system.
Unfortunately, thatās not going to happen. 
Back to topic, how many times Raiders complained that Mithic + was stealing players from their content ?
Well they got what they asked for.
Cheers.
Ehhā¦ I donāt think youāre reading what I write. Youāre being completely incoherent.
Oh, I think it should be reworked like that as well.
But I also think we should all accept that there are going to be some truly amazing items elsehwere in the game - just one or two - that crop up and if we want to be truly, truly BiS, weāre gonna have to go grab them. However, if itās more than a couple, then thereās a problem.
In other words, if you wanna be best in M+, I think itās completely reasonable that you get 14 BiS pieces from M+ and maybe need 2-3 other pieces from the raid, but M+ has some really good stand-ins, too.
This I agree with entirely as well, but we canāt have that if M+ canāt have lockouts - or if raiding must have them.
Either we all accept the egg-timers or none of us do. You canāt have it both ways.
I donāt think Lockouts are the solution; we already know that in Shadowlands the end of key chest will only give out a single piece of loot regardless of how quick you complete it
There is also no way anymore to control what dungeon you end up getting; that alone makes it difficult enough to get desirable loot without running an obscene number of keys that I think the end result is essentially identical.
So firstly they nerfed drop chance at the end of dungeon ,and now this 
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Anyway this decision about raid guilds and raiding. Who enjoyed only M+ they was weaker and in SL will be more weaker and will be overboard. Get ready to raid, the time spend on M+ spam to gear not worth it.
Yes, the chest is precisely the lockout on loot.
OP is arguing for a system wherein he gets items of comparable power to those you get from raids on a lockout - but without a lockout. That means he can farm a full set of gear equivalent to heroic raiding gear in a tiny fraction of the time.
And I said you canāt have it both ways - and Blizzard finally woke up to this one.
As a gear source M+ pretty much broke Legion and BfA. In fact it broke Legion so bad my guild nearly broke apart due to drama about how people were unwilling to subject themselves to running the same M+ dungeon hundreds of times in a few weeks. Enough of that.
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Finnaly some1 that have a good amouth of brain cells
Its broke nothing in Legion, coz u have legendaries + sets thats connot be replaced. The place for M+ gear was so little. Thats was content for alts and M+ tryhard pushers.
The fall of Mythic +. Iām really sad.
So basicly we are now forced to play Retail to do raids 1/2/3 day per week from 7pm to midnight then we switch into Classic and soon The Burning Crusade Classic to do the same ? No repeatable content that award something valuable and create motivation ?
Because it seem Blizzard donāt like to have repeatable content and want us to raidlog in multiple expansion. RIP.
As a Classic player, I miss Mythic +, and Classic dungeons are dead once everyone has raid gear because itās āRAID OR DIEā.
Good.
End of dungeon loot was way to overtuned compared to any other gearing source in the game besides mythic raiding.
But mythic raiding had the lockout system so it wasnt spammable like m+ is.
M+ also has the benefit of being able to get virtually every single stat combination.
The weekly chest will still exist which most people gear through anyways past the first 1-2 weeks
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You do realize that you need to +3 in order for four items to drop ?
And m15 aint joke when new raid opens.
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You get one mythic raid tier item every week for doing one m+15. Thereās nothing more to give, really. If you cleared the mythic raid youāre not guaranteed one item of that item level. M+ is too rewarding.
Can he? Are you sure? Have you done the maths on this one?
You get a single piece of loot from the end chest, across five people. Thereās on average four bosses in each dungeon, and if SL follows BFA each boss will have about 2-3 possible drops for a spec.
Thatās 8-12 possible drops per person in a single dungeon, some of which may be utter trash. Some may only be minor upgrades, maybe 2 of them genuine leaps.
And only one person gets a chance at any of those; even if they can trade it, they may not be in a group with someone who needs what they got.
Plus, early on in the patch you canāt easily farm 15s anyways, and so on and so on.
I think youāre grossly overestimating the āeaseā of gearing up from Keystones with how they work in Shaowlands.
3 Likes
You can still play your side minigame for pushing raiting that is not even implemented in the game but you get it from 3rd party web site 
Good job to Blizzard,finnaly listening to proper players and not casuals that want items to drop off the sky
Lmao Mythic + minigame. Itās not my fault if you can literally AFK in LFR/normal raids and get loots.
Ye its a minigame,get over it