That’s not exactly a good example, I am busy watching the versi values and they are honestly trough the roof.
But that is not what none of the players meant considering “timing”, especially when the tanks run… rank 5 TD?
Honestly did you meme all night with beers?
It looks exactly like that.
idk about the tank gear. the prot pala is our arms warrior of my M+ group. He does not have real gear for prot, but just switched for the raid occasion.
Your tanks are fat enough to play with 3 fingers.
I know, i know. we boosted our guildies a bit. They wanted to raid. We helped out. Still those 40k numbers are not really a dps/hps check.
Yeah, but consider the DTPS values the tanks could literally fall asleep and ask a priest to grab them around.
lol 
We all fell asleep i suppose. Which is not happening in pushing M+ 
Yeah but consider that
/4PX1CcnVdjtGWLyK#fight=35&type=healing
This was one of our march kills with bigger size, i can’t say the healers were snoozing.
Yeah in opposite to M+ right? There you only need one healer doing 40k hps 
Just take for example the literally best healing log in M+:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/72FcgAykMNWXwhC3#fight=12&type=healing&translate=true
If we were all as good in avoiding damage as those players, (and playing with those classes), indeed 
That is why it is way harder in M+. The coordination to get those logs is insane.
So in Legion you at Blizzard stated “play what content you like and we will make the game feel rewarding”
With the current gear change to M+ for SL we are back into the old “play what contect we would like you to play to make the game feel rewarding”
I will not dive into the moral and very subjective discussion of “what is real endgame PVE content and who should be allowed to have end game top tier BIS items”
I will simply state that it is my impression that the player base is split like this (and here I am just pulling numbers out of my A…)
60% do Raid PVE as endgame and their main content
20% do M+ PVE as endgame and their main content
20% do PVP as endgame and their main content
The player base consist of X amount of players whom pay 13EUR pr. month to play
Seen from a business perspective keeping as close to 100% of the player base content will equal keeping close to 100% of that X amount times 13 EUR pr. month + services bought etc.
So since I do belive that M+ player base, who are only doing M+ as the only content they play are rather large (and again this is not a religious discussion if Raiders dislike having to do M+ or M+ having to do Raids etc). I am simply stating that why not just make all happy?
The obvious question that begs to be asked is
Who would lose if M+, PVP and Raidig just had its own stats or a similar solution (like Ressilience on PVP gear back in the days not good in Raiding) make something similar for M+ and bring back resilliance to PVP?
Then player who only do PVP can PVP in their own end gear
M+ can do M+ at equal playing field competing against other who see M+ as end game
and Raiders can raid HC and Mythic without feeling forced into M+
The reason M+ has become my end game content (besides that fact that I really like it and enjoy it) is that when you started playing WOW in 2005 I was young and had time to raid 6/7 days pr. week
Now I have 2 kids, full time job, wife, Social events, school events you name it, and I can put in game time mostly 1 hour at the time often 2-3 hours pr. day, but split into 3x1 hour
This mean that I still play around 3X1X7 hours of WOW around 20 hours of WOW pr. week on average which is mosy likely the same if not more than an average raider, I am just not able to put them in at 20.00-23.00 on specific Raid days each week.
But in the current state of the game and now even more in SL with this comming change to gear in M+ I will just not be able to put out the same DPS/Tanking/Healing in M+ as those who can put in the same amount of hours raiding, but in longer session
And does that seem like a good customer experience to you - putting in the same (if not more) amount of hours into the game (+paying the same price), but because you cannot put them in at certain times of the day in certain lenght sessions you are to be less able to play at M+20 keys?
So to sum up this long rant
Weekly reward from just completing M+7 is ilvl 213.
On par with HC ilvl.
Every higher difficulty above that rewards higher ilvl than HC raid all the way up to be on the same ilvl as mythic raiding rewards.
And lets be real, end of dungeon chest rewards are useful for just a few weeks.
And when Season 2 starts, you will basically hop into your season last highest key -4.
So when you ran 20s in S1, you will start at 16s in S2, due to the scaling of the dungeons each season.
Instantly given you access to the ‘‘new’’ weekly chest reward. And yes, this goes for all difficulties.
Where is the issue? I still dont see it.
35% of accounts got N’zoth Curve.
12% of accounts got all +15’s in time.
Which is harder to do based on the above stats from Wowhead? Heroic should be capped at 2 hours of time in the raid a week 
or a timer to kill a boss… say 4 mins.
This is starting to loop a bit.
I don’t know why someone pulled a m29 log, but you may as well as pull a mythic nzoth log and start poking them around.
That does not change the fact, that there are races in mythic, just as they are in mythic +. You want to do some stuff in time when it comes down to raid wide damage or pushing into another phase, but the scaling is diffrent.
I am not sitting here trying to explain to you “hurr durr raiding /m+ is superior” as in my book those two are separate matters, but a blanket statement that one is better than the other falls on deaf ears as the goals are vastly different.
I always giggle when i see him still running rank 2 vision.
I’m sure the only factor here is difficulty.
It’s not at all like ahead of the curve is:
What a revolutionary idea! How has no one ever thought of that?
Oh yes i totally agree. The comparisment raiding (heroic) and M+ is just not possible. It is a different game
I am also not too bothered by it. I am currently using only 3 pieces actually from my weekly chest, while having played the whole season, with 2 weeks of only finishing a +14. I use 4 pieces from end dungeon, 3 from heroic raid and 1 from a heroic vision (yes, lol). (keeping cloak, neck and Titan residuum azerite gear out of it)
But the ‘compensation’ for me will probably be the multiple options available from M+ in the weekly vault. If only doing 4 dungeons a week, there is already double the chance for decent high ilvl loot, while i have in the majority of the weeks way more than 10 dungeons finished even. So there is that
I mean people are saying clearing heroic is harder than doing +15’s. Judging by the % of accounts that have those achievements id say heroic raiding is so much easier than doing +15’s in time…
Who cares for boosts. You can boost for curve and for all 15’s. Means nothing at all. You cant be arguing one is ‘harder than the next’ then go ‘but boosting’. you either accept the data thats there or stay delusional.
Getting all 15s in time is not hard considering you only need 15 to get max level loot this patch i do not think you understand how things work.
If you think 5man dungeons is harder then heroic raids you are fooling yourself.
Just because people do not want to do all of the dungeons at 15 does not mean they are not doing 15s, that is a part of where the statistic is fooling you.
You are accepting on face value without knowing the factors that make you the delusional one.
There is also that this looks at accounts not characters now do you know how wowhead knows one accounts from another? because that would be intresting to know.
o/ Havthor.
Heroic raid is easier than +15’s in time. Keystone conquerer (all +10 in time which is not difficult at all) has 14% of all accounts achieved. compared to the 35% for N’zoth curve. Data doesn’t lie my man. Getting +10 in all dungs is ~2x harder than ahead for the curve N’Zoth based on the % of accounts that have these feat of strength achievements.
That’s not exactly true you know.
It is more of a case of more raiders and curve mount as well.