Yes, that was meant as very optimistic estimate.
That’s another good point. I have to admit I don’t understand why they don’t make it easier to lower keys. Or give you the option to select what level you want to run the key at.
If we could simply stick the key in the receptacle and there was an option to run it at a lower and then you could + or - it, or even type in a number lower than what it currently was.
20 mins of forming a new group maybe?
I would like to see an addon which shows a person’s desire. =)
Are they committed to completing the dungeon?
YES, NO, MAYBE SO.
I admit, all scores aside, I prefer people that are committed to finishing the dungeon–ideally, they know how to do it in a timely fashion, but even if they don’t, and they come fully prepared, are alert, and know their class, I can live with failed timer in the end.
To me, I don’t see why people are such quitters. Seriously, you still get your loot chest at the end, and you still get credit for the weekly completed chest. If you sign up, you should be committed to completing it, period.
If you are some elitist jerk (which I try to suppress in myself), then don’t join a PuG, okay?
I remember, I joined a group one day, the tank and myself (healer) where the only one’s in the group that had any visible (rio) experience, and I whispered to him before the start my pessimism in the group. he replied, it was only +5. I said, with dummies, it might as well be +20. Unfortunately, this was one of those cases, where I hated that I was right, 90+ minutes later, we finished.
But, the main thing, we finished. Once we started, I compete to the end.
Yeah, I really need a guild. =)
For a tank or a healer, in prime time =)
I think he meant, the time already invested in the failed dungeon.
That’s what bothers me, if you already wasted 30 minutes, to get half way through, might as well finish it, no? Get the chest at the end, and learn something.
The only thing the should keep a pug pre-made group together is the common interest to do the dungeon as smoothly as possible.
Pre-made groups don’t need any other sort of mechanism that “forces” players to stick together. This isn’t a group made by some sort of algorithm. The group leader handpicked every single player.
Let’s not try to turn the pre-made groups into toxic wastes that the current Q-made groups are.
Join a group, leave a group, invite whoever you want, play with people you trust. Players’ choice above all.
And this is why Raider IO exists.
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For people to fail miserably?
Elaborate on that please because the quote you took was in the context that Raider. io still presents problems even with people using such.
The difference is, logs show your skill and performance. Rio doesn’t, doesn’t show if you know how to play your class in the slightest. Logs also show you something you can work towards in progression raiding guilds ect.
All Rio does is take the API from blizzards site and puts a score on it, top 500 max so if you don’t do it at the start of reset on a high pop realm the score doesn’t go up, so Rio is rubbish…
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I always think you might as well finish, even if you’re gonna deplete. People want the reward from the chest.
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Maybe so but Raider IO is not going to tell you how skilled a person was playing in the dungeon before it all went downhill.
Unless the OP specifically describes how each keys downgraded then we have no idea of what the issue was with these 3 runs.
When M+ first started in BFA I had a +2 underrot key on one of my 120 characters, I formed a party and started a run. The tank pulled all of the ticks plus the walking add at the start and we wiped as you would expect, the tank then left instantly without saying a word leaving the run to be a disaster. If it was a higher key that depleted due to this exact scenario would you be saying that Raider IO would prevent this even if I picked those with the right “score” and the exact same thing happened?
Raider IO isn’t the fix to these issues, its actually a sidestep which has caused its own set of issues due to the data that is available from Blizzard and how it is implemented within the addon.
I don’t need to recruit people to my guild, mate, I just want a reasonable suspicion that they’ve managed that place before. Sure it’s not fool proof but reasonable is enough for me.
And you have time to check logs of 20+ people each m+ run? Because I sure as hell don’t. I was doing that for a mythic guild as an officer, chances of doing it for random groups every night are 0. I’d be spending more time checking logs (for classes I don’t even play) than failing the key.
I play on a high pop realm.
Just because the API doesn’t get ALL the runs, doesn’t make the ones that it gets null and void. Yes, people that can’t play early in the reset get shafted. Does that mean everybody should?
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In reality there are a lot of horrible people in M+. Not only gameplay wise, but characterwise aswell. I have joined +10 groups that were boosting someone for gold without telling me in advance. I’ll gladly leave such a group without hesitation.
(I have also completed +10s with people with 340 iLvL who did their best and we were barely over time, i don’t mind those, as long as i know in advance. I’ll gladly bring a friend that still needs a key to one of those runs and carry 2-3 people as long as those are other DDs and not the tank or healer)
See my point above. Furthermore, a lot of high groups will disband after 1-2 wipes as all they are looking for, is to push their score, not spend 40 mins in a dungeon they wanted to time.
I disagree, some Pugs even on lower keys can be just as bad as some pugs on higher keys. Just as you could join a pug for a raid that turns out terrible. The problem is the penalty that the game inflicts on the keyholder if someone leaves, not necessarily with the person leaving.
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The reason I hate r. io (and one of the reasons I do nothing this xpack higher than m0 and lfr) is because it adds a layer of pressure and competition on allready existing layers of pressure, thank you very much, that’s not what I am looking for in my free time. Especially because I cannot handle too much pressure that well and start to become toxic myself.
Allready learned my lessons in 7.0 10+ keys that playing a healer trying to keep mindless DPS alive, who try to reach their dummy numbers in an encounter with plenty of stuff to dodge, is not cool. Maybe if you know the right people, but I have no time and desire to befriend some people in a game anymore ~
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I’m not exactly sure what your point is in relation to mine. You even quote the part where I state there is a vast difference.
I even agreed with Deja’s suggestion that it would need to include more data. The whole point is the ‘vast differences’. Plus Savoren’s suggestion about being able to agree to abandon a key as a group.
I know it’s not easy to read every reply in a discussion.
The difference with a pug raid is you can replace the bad players or even the quitters. In M+ you can’t. So if the system highlighted those that abandon keys a lot, which they are entitled to do, then they’d people would know not to invite them to groups because they can’t see it through.
I don’t actually think that kind of data will ever be released btw. This is all just hypothetical.
Hope to see you there mate 
Join calm keystone and have fun.
You can’t log pvp and expect any kind of useful data, it’s too complex and too unpredictable for logs to have any semblance of value as opposed to pve. The relevant measure in pvp really is rating + win/loss ratio + number of games played. By looking at rating, you can make a good idea where a person stands right now, and by looking at the win/loss ratio and the number of games played you can ascertain if they play at their level or they simply haven’t done enough games to grind the rating up to their standard level.
I meant more if it had a third party site with any kind of data that it measures in some way. Like raids log which give scores, m+ has scoring for completing runs.