Imagine going to exam and failing it and asking your math teacher not to grade you 
.
You are taking none fails and then expect them to not leave your key when it becomes clear that the key will not be timed .you cant have both hands in cake .
You either take the guy who has failed keys but stays in the group or take the guy who has no failed keys but will leave if things go south .
It sounds more like a you problem then anything
That’s an interesting perspective. My train of thought usually is either reversed or neutral, depends on the options I have to compare to.
Let me explain what I mean by that.
When I see a guy apply with NW +8 timed and another guy, with similar ilvl of the same class (just to make it easier to compare) apply with a NW +10 untimed, I’d most likely prefer the guy with the +10 untimed. Why? Because I at least know that he had some experience on that key level in that dungeon.
The untimed key indicates that he a) was in the dungeon on +10 before and b) saw all of that dungeon in +10.
So he is, or should be, aware of the damage profile of that dungeon on that level.
The other +8 timed guy just has the dungeon experienced on +8 (at best he also did a +10 but obviously didn’t time it and thus left before finishing).
So ultimately, the guy with the +8 timed may or may not have xp in a +10, while the +10 untimed guy has xp in a +10.
Sure, it may or may not be his fault for not timing the +10 but same could also be true for the possible unrecorded (because unfinished) +10 the other guy had.
There are also 5 players in a dungeon so just assuming that this one guy is solely at fault is a bit foolish imo.
Happy about what? Its basic rio interpretation. Any party leader worth its salt checks people in detail not just the rio number they apply with it.
If I see a person who has only timed and +2/+3 chested keys and not a single untimed key. It brings a question whenever they are boosted or “MDI perfectionists” who will bail the moment tank pulls the wrong mob(according to them). Having untimed keys at least proves that the person is willing to go forward despite mistakes.
The few pug runs I have been, I’ve seen enough tanks double or even triple pulling mid-dungeon without as much as a warning, wiping the whole group and despite our overal dps being very high and the key still very much salvageable and timeable… still leave because their “super hardcore MDI trick” didn’t work.
While these days I try to avoid pugging as much as I can, been pugging since M+ was introduced(mid-legion) and I am fully aware that pugs have nothing to lose and can easily leave. As a party leader, all you can do is to try to vet people to reduce the risks…if you are still desperate enough to pug for your key.
“The Timegates Within”
Personally, yes. There should be no situation where that happens. That’s like what…4 key levels? And you failed it. Score should be for timed.
But you’re ignoring the fact that if someone has failed keys they could very likely be the problem. A timed key or a ++ shows that under good circumstances they can time the key. The higher the key the more applicable this is.
You are only 20% of your group. Everyone will have some failed keys here or there. No failed keys is a big red flag.
yeah m+ rewards are pretty pathetic
you actually LOSE GOLD when u attempt m+
just flask of alchemical chaos + food + rune + oil +hp pot + prepot pot cost about 10k gold.
and this is NOT COUNTING you die and repair cost ; - )
50 gold for completion ? XDDDDDD
give me a break from this joke
i actually got 2.600 rio on my tank and i bailed, cba pushing for nothing
You currently have no failed keys on that character or your alt mistweaver. Are you a red flag?
I just don’t agree with the point of view. I think tanks/healers contribute more than 20%. Prot paladin for example does great damage, can save the party in multiple ways with utility and the ability to interrupt multiple targets solo can’t be overstated.
Idk, maybe I’m a terrible person but I never ever spend 10k on consumables for M+. Cheap flasks, some health potions, and food. The food I can just fish for, the flasks are like 300g for R2 and health potions…I don’t even know where I got them from but I never run out without buying them.
The biggest hit is usually the repair-bill.
Yeah, it kind of triggered me when I looted 47g (personal) from 1 single pull in Timewalking. So 4 packs (or so), one pull, in TW is as rewarding in the context of gold than an entire M+ run. That’s quite lame…
But hey, gotta keep selling those tokens 
Not sure what you talk about. i have 3 failed keys.
There is a small chance with each spell cast that you will lose 1 durability point to your weapon . There is a small chance with each hit absorbed by your armor that it will lose 1 durability point. When you die, 10% durability is lost on all equipped items (that have a durability rating).
even without spending 10k gold on consumables, me, as a tank player
pay more gold for repairs just cause i got durability destroyed from trash ?
interesting right ? the pathetic 50 gold not cut it.
give me incentive and reward and i give you my tank for pugs 
Yeah, I agree that it’s a bit odd from a tank’s perspective.
I’ve wondered before why we even have durability loss in M+. It really doesn’t add much other than being a gold sink.
look.
right now PvP players have blood stones, can farm them 7k gold for 2.5k honour
delve enjoyers have tinder boxes and various materials that sell well
raiders have a BoE farm and weapon enchants for 50k +
M+ players have what ?? a repair bill ?
a big f , if anything
all 11s timed. 4 of them ++ . That’s 0 failed keys shown on your score. It’s not saying that you have never failed a key, people would have to dig to find your untimed keys which they won’t do. Clearly i’m talking about r.io tooltip
you’ve attempted 12s, but they have gone untimed and not given more score than the 11s you had. Thats how it should always be imo - untimed = 0 score
Sure. Same as people who have everything timed might be easily boosted literarly or with “3.0k guys who play like in MDI and the guy just tagged along”.
In the end there is no clear winner. Your key = your rules. If inviting only +2/+3 chest perfectionists works out for you then by all means, all the power to you.
For me. I had enough of ragequiters due to “tank not pulling multiple packs at once to show off their imba dps” or accidently pulling 1 pack and “omgez, its not 2 chest anymore. BYE!”. I avoid the “MDI perfectionists” as much as boosted people…heck if anything. Even a boosted person who will do auto-attack dmg has more “use” than somebody who straight up leaves.
That’s the thing, you can’t know until it is too late. That’s why i hate this key system.
A tank pulling properly isn’t just “look at my dps”. DPS players need to practice the pulls they will do in higher keys or w/e. It’s all multifaceted.
Boosted AA guy may drop crap on the party or stress the healer causing more deaths. Oom the healer w/e. There is no clear answer.
If we could just kick the bad players and go again it would be 10x better
I have no idea what you talk about. I have clearly untimed keys.
I am not using the raiderio addon either. So not so clearly to me.
(had to change the quote since i am not allowed to add links in my posts)
Well I’m talking about raider.io add-on. That’s how people see your score and I’ve been talking about it this whole time.
It’s the standard
Ok, if you say so.