Not all are like this. Me and my friend downgraded our 2 Iron docks to a 19 from a 20 and now we have timed our level 21 Junkyard and Grimrail Depot. Working with generalisations is sometimes misleading.
By the way. Not timing the key or leaving it brings huge toxicity in the pug community. People must have a reason to stay instead of non-stop leaving the keys.
There’s things to say for both sides of this conversation, in this time people are always it’s either white or black, no in betweens, with literally everything.
Since I understand that you don’t want a downgrade if someone leaves after 1 minute, people do. In that case, it seems fair, there’s people who literally want to f… up other people’s keys.
There’s also bad luck with DCs, I had them as well. Maybe an option for a run to “pause for 2 mins” if someone DCs, you can’t attack anything etc.
Then again, if you attempt a key, finish and it’s not timed, then indeed, you shouldn’t get a gift of a no key downgrade.
I’d say this system isn’t perfect, but the idea is, that this every time is a challenge for a group to finish it.
Running it with pugs is always like buying a lottery ticket, even if you pick people with high scores.
It’s not mine, bc I don’t play anymore, so it’s yours if anything, since you are playing. Hf as said.
In my last key I had a BM hunter, who failed every single mechanic in tazavesh streets, flame our tank for dying, and ragequitting. I get punished for this ofc, bc I hosted it.
just make another gift if you time it. We have the score already in place that both gives mount and gear upgrade unlock. Portals to time a 20 is also a carrot.
I imagine tanks will leave easier, but they might just also give that 15key a try since you dont have to feel so bad leaving. And the group learned something. Next try, they wont do the same mistake, since at this keylevel, this kind of mistakes are not forgiven.
That is easy to counter. Don’t downgrade the key but at the same time don’t allow to reset it. For example, the keys could have a one-hour cooldown that only restarts if the dungeon finishes. So, kicking players or restarting won’t be worth it because the key won’t be usable for one hour.
The only really, really toxic behaviour I’ve encountered this season is a monk that left because we pulled a pack without him being there, he was taking such a long time to get past the bot field before 3rd boss in workshop. We waited after we got past it and then he got teleported back again and we just pulled the pack instead of waiting around longer. That set him off like mad, he started rage flaming and then went “YOU WANT ME TO LEAVE YOUR KEY???”. Like, yeah, ok. Leave if you want to, doesn’t bother me, lol. What a threat.
Then there’s been some tanks flaming DPS for doing low DPS but they’ve only done that after the key was over.
This is a good suggestion.
It made sense in Shadowlands where the zone were so fragmented. S4? what portals do you need? They are all in Oribos. Maybe Iron Docks and the two Tazavesh for the very lazy ones. There is no carrot to time a +20
Here is the thing: The way to chase a carrot in a stick in a game should be fun. If the way isn’t fun, the game is trash.
If I have to fear every time I host a m+, that I don’t waste 60 min of my life due to reasons out of my control, because boosting exists, and people in wow have very bad mental, the game isn’t good. For me there is no alternative, bc I do not have time raiding.
Don’t need a carrot. I was like “Just gonna play for KSM this season” before it started. Then we’ve just been doing the keys we’re getting and it’s mostly been fun, the only downer is lower karazhan due to how difficult it is. Even doing another key on +21 is easier than lower kara on +15.
From what i see from your Main character activity your sample of keys is to small compared to mine. Last season i had 206 timed runs (I am not including the ones finished but not on time as i don’t even know how many are those). This season i already have 46 in time. You have no idea how many morons I’ve met.
You’ve run 695 dungeons across all your characters this season.
That’s over 11 days 17h 33m worth of Mythic+!
Is that supposed to be some kind of flex to have 206 runs?
I don’t know why you are going in a direction which has nothing to do with what i am pointing you to. I will say it again. Your idea about toxicity is based on a sample which is to little compared to mine. I have met a lot more morons then you did. Do you get what I am saying now? Do I have to spell it more clearly or what???
I had almost 700 runs last season. My sample is small compared to yours of 200 runs as you said?
Doesn’t really make sense.
And lol, the amount of keys you’ve done is less than I’ve done this season so far. I’m playing 3 characters, my priest is at 37 timed runs, my shaman is at 54 timed runs and the third one is just getting started. Don’t come here being all “HURDIHURR, I HAVE TIMED 46 RUNS THIS SEASON, I HAD 200 LAST SEASON YOU HAVE SMALL SAMPLE SIZE COMPARED TO MINE”. Like, I have almost double the timed runs you have this season.
You seriously underestimate the number of no lifers here, 200 runs lol.
I don’t play nearly as much like when I was younger but people are gonna respond with their thousands of runs
If you play any multiplayer game with other players then there will always be factors which you cannot control. Toxic people, ragequiters and etc. Only game where you can control every factor is…a single player game I guess…to a point anyway.
Pugging had and always have risks. Convenience versus “toxic people”. Its not a guild where people can “do it for the team”. When I invite any pug, I am fully aware that he or she is in my party purely for her selfish reasons, and won’t give 2 cents about my needs or problems…and it would be foolish to expect otherwise.
If you can’t or wont join dedicated guilds or teams, then you can only play the Russian roulette with pugs and hope for the best.
I think it’s better to keep the downgrade but instead we should punish leavers.
Lmao, not this again. This has been discussed to death on these forums and there’s no way to punish them that won’t make it completely miserable to try to run keys with pugs.
remove the untimed downgrade and make it only for if its not finished, Like Oni said. Would prevent leavers and encourage completion.
(Your key wont upgreade either if untimed. but will remain the same, But at least not be downgraded)
New players same as now, Cannot join a key that has already started so the system cannot be abused like Puny mentioned.
Make it optional to decrease the key if your not strong enough for the current key your at (Already a thing but still enforced if your pug goes wrong)
Let’s compare to league:
Since you make generalizations about online games vs single player, the comparison is valid. Wow is just a bad multiplayer experience, that’s all. Completely carried by lore/art design, and by old loyal fans, that have sunken cost fallacy.
If they wanna improve wow, they have to meet the new standards, and stop wasting people’s time. We are too smart for that bs in 2022. I wanna play wow to have fun. I already work enough irl. In my free time, I don’t wanna work for pixels. I wanna play for pixels.
Now, before you tell me to go play league, if I like it so much: That’s what I will do.