Reserving items

Hi. I think we’re all familiar with a situation when in a chat, people search for group mates for going to a dungeons. And today we’re often see situation when this people say that they are forming group where some items will be reserved. Moreover, many people think that reserving items actually should say something bad about person which make the group, others think that its not and reserving items are fine. In this post I’ll try to give some argument about how we’re really should concern such situations.

I’ll not go far from now, and say from the very beginning, on my opinion reserving item is immoral kind of action. But what I mean when say it’s immoral? All game characters have some person behind them. I mean a real people, who play on this characters. In normal society we are treat each other like equal and free persons, and by equality we understand equality in rights also. Every gamer has this basic rights in a game too, together with specific game kind of rights, which presupposed by game rules. One of this right of equal players is a right on fair roll for items, that they are really need. For example, if we killed the boss into Maraudon, and the ring dropped, all player which actually need the ring (it improves their character, other items may be necessary for the profession, etc.) have a right on take part in a roll on this ring, and no one should deprive them of this right. If somebody take this ring without roll, cause he need it more than others, doing so, he violates basic rights of other players on fair roll, and cause of that we can say, that he make some immoral action. Like in real life, we don’t want to have deal with unfair and immoral persons, also true of the game. But what does a person reserving an item do if not a similar action?

So, here is the argument:

  1. If someone reserve some item for himself in a situation, when the other players too need it, then he violates basic right of other players for fair roll.

  2. When someone violates basic rights of equal persons, which actually players are, he make immoral action.

  3. Then, if someone reserve some item for himself in a situation, when the other players too need it, then he make immoral action.

Several last remarks about my position. First, I talk about the case of random party groups, distribution of items in guilds is not of my concern, such cases need separate discussion. Second, when I talked in a chat about this problem, I met with two main objections to my position. One objection I think is really weak, and goes like this “people always reserve items in game, so I don’t see a problem here”. In answering on it I can say only that this fact, that some players always do some action, don’t make this action is a moral one. The second objection was more interesting, according to it when you reserve some item, you are actually make a kind of arrangement and if so, you can reserve item cause this arrangement was free willed by all participants. But I don’t think that it is correct line of thought. When you are make arrangement, you want make fair arrangement, if you rational person at all, and I not deny that arrangement about item reserving is an arrangement, I’m claim that it’s not a fair arrangement. I give a brief example: when a poor woman need money for food and then she met a man, who have a money, and he make an arrangement with her that he’ll give the money, but she should be make love with him, it’s kinda free-willed arrangement, but most of us I guess don’t think that this kind of arrangement is a fair one, cause in this arrangement a man actually take away woman basic right for self-respect and should be considered actually as immoral person, although he gave the money. The same right in the situation of reserving item, some player would needed to go in dungeon for quest, exp, or by another reason and maybe the only party can take this dungeon is a party in which items are reserved, so he make an arrangement with group leader cause he in need. But again, this arrangement would not be a fair kind of arrangement.

Now, I think that all can see that reserving items not a good thing. Such complex questions, which concern game morality should be discussed on this forum also. And if you want say something, objection or agreement, do it, I’m open for conversation here. And of course feel free to use this argument, if you agree with it in a game when you want to condemn items reservations.

6 Likes

You are equal and free to make your own groups and set whatever loot rules you wish, and people are equal and free to choose if they want to join or not.

There’s absolutely nothing wrong with reserving items. It’s insane that people think they have the right to enforce loot rules in other peoples groups without spending the effort to organize said group.

The only immoral action here is not informing the group of the item being reserved before the run starts. As long as the group is informed, then there’s nothing wrong with reserving.

Say I want a Blackblade of Shahram or something from UBRS. I make groups, I find tanks, I find healers, I find or pay someone with a key, and I organize checking for Jed every single time.
Because of the work I put in there are now several daily UBRS groups that damage dealers can just join by whispered me “inv DPS here” for little effort.

In return, I get the epic item I really wanted as a reward for my work. This is much more fair transaction than say, I do the same amount of work, but I have to roll against 5 other random people when the item actually drops.

Your problem seem to be that you think everything has to be fair and equal all the time, but the world dont work this way. Some people do more work than others, and they deserve more reward. Its just how it is.

If you feel like everyone should always get to roll, then I advice you organize your own runs and set the lootrules you please so that everyone get to roll. I am not sure what this post is hoping to accomplish. You cannot force people to abandon their right to set their own lootrules in their own groups, and in turn I cannot force people to join my groups if they do not like my rules.

38 Likes

If someone is putting time and effort to create a group because he or she needs a specific item, and he/she states it in the LFG chat as they are finding people that the item in question is reserved, how is that immoral? Arn’t you just stupid if you join such a group and are in need of that exact item?

You have two choices; You either create your own group or you join a group that has nothing reserved. People are and should be free to create groups on their own terms. Some people make farm groups for BRD arena runs, but what if the healer wants the trinket from Golem boss? Is it immoral for that group to exist or is it the healers own fault for joining a BRD arena farm group?

13 Likes

Being invited to a group is a privelege, not a right. If you disagree with loot reserves - make your own, and have no restrictions.

12 Likes

I don’t like groups which reserve items and I’m unlikely to join them, even if I don’t need those items. But some people probably don’t care, so I’m like it’s none of my business.

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As a tank I never join those groups. Even for gear I dont need/want.

18 Likes

don’t join those groups make your own. Although reserving an item is one thing but i’ve seen groups where every damn item in UBRS is reserved xD then they wonder why they can’t find a second tank or healer roflmao

Seriously it was like LFM UBRS Talisman , truestrike , wilffire , flaming band , polychromatic , nightbrace , dusfeather , crystallized , briarwood et et cetc reseved xD i mean like wtf guys come on !

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Typical whine post of someone LAZY that cant be bothered to make own group. /thread

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No, if your rules violate others basic rights.

Here I’m agree, but not only this action.

I dont talk about how world should work, I talk about people and their actions and attitudes.

This a condition for group run for those items take place at all, it dont give you more priority on items.

I always laugh when I see DPS players deserving items and are looking 5 hours for a tank. Only players that can really deserve items are tanks because there is a shortage.

9 Likes

I said nothing about right for invite in a group. Read better.

You have no rights. My group, my rules. If you do not like my rules then you go make your own group.
Demanding everyone else caters to you is not going to get you anywhere. As long as the option to make your own groups is available to you then your “basic rights” are not violated in any way. I really dont get your point.

Actually it does, because hey, it’s my group. Why do you feel like you are entitled to join my group and start dictating what loot you should be able to roll on or not? As long as I am up front about what item I need from the dungeon you can choose to join or choose to find another group.

5 Likes

It’s not against the rules.
You join the group = You agreed to that loot terms and if you ninja that reserved item, you’re breaking the rules.

Just don’t join that group.

2 Likes

Reserving 1 items, for me, it’s not a problem. You can do that if you want, just don’t expect people who need that item to join your group (but after all, this is what you want). Have fun farming Hand of Justice when 0 caster need theses boss in BRD, and you want to be solo melee xD. You will end solo in the group :wink: … this is not a smart move unless you start to farm others that others class need of course., so at the end i have no problem with that.

Reserving pattern, can be fine to. But it depends of which pattern of course. Don’t expect me to pass on a high valuable pattern if i need it to.

Reserving sellable items (green/blue), orbs, i join your group, and i ninja all items to ensure your group disband fast.

2 Likes

This is exactly what the person who reserves the items does.

I never said that someone should dictate their rules to others in group. This is precisely my position that nobody can dictate their rules, including group leader, that fact that you are group leader does not give you privilege over the rest members.
There is no your group, there is group of people, and this people are equal ones.

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But it’s not though. Please dont try to twist this. I am simply telling you the loot rules of my group, and I leave it up to you to join or not. I dont expect that everyone else cater to me. There’s a lot of players that may need different items than I do, and without my group there would be one less group available for these people to join.

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I should add, that i didn’t say that it’s against game rules, opportunity for such arrangements of course should be saved, but this doesn’t make it moral good arrangement.

How exactly is it not my group if I am the group leader? It’s really not that different from say a guild leader deciding their guild use DKP instead of Loot Council. People can choose to be in the guild or not, but it’s very much his or her guild.

I am starting to realize this conversation is going nowhere, and that you are one of those “something for nothing” type of people. Make your own groups and the problem goes away.

5 Likes

If you are running with a pug you have no right to reserve. Use your guild and friends for that kinds of runs, as everyone in a pug is equally entitled to any upgrade that drops. Imo experince though, most people are fair - at my level anyways - and often gives everyone a chance for an upgrade. But kudos for getting a group together, i guess you needed the drop in there - but dont for a second assume that im not doing you a favor as well, we all want upgrades and I shouldnt be any less qualified to roll for an upgrade, just because you have group lead … Let the dice decide and remember to gz the winner - and if some piece really just dont want to drop, get you guild together or a bunch of friends and farm it.
Its not about you … its a team effort …

7 Likes

Again, if your rules don’t violate my basic right for fair rolling on items, what follows from the fact that we are equal individuals, you can use these rules freely and this rules would be moral one. But if it is, they are not.
Why do you think your rules may suggest that you have more rights to the item than others?

When I say that group not yours I simply mean that you have no rights on the basic rights of other players in your group, the title of a leader don’t give you such authority.

What you mean by this?

1 Like