There is no longer any such thing as ret downtime.
I have been playing some solo shuffle tonight, and I’m not the best player or anything, but their representation has shot up by 400%. There is a ret in literally every single lobby I’ve played the whole night, and they are doing absolutely crazy damage, mainly because they can’t be peeled due to their high mobility and great defensives.
Ret needs a nerf. That’s it.
Well deserved since all of you are just getting free rating
Developers’ notes: Retribution Paladins have been heavily overperforming in PvP with their recent 10.0.7 changes. We’re primarily targeting their burst damage, passive survivability, and PvP talents that we feel are contributing too much overall damage. Judgment of Light healing reduced by 35% for Retribution Paladins in PvP combat. Inquisitor’s Ire effectiveness reduced by 40% in PvP combat. Fading Light effectiveness reduced by 75% for Retribution Paladins in PvP combat. Justicar’s Vengeance now deals 15% additional damage to stunned targets in PvP combat. Justicar’s Vengeance healing reduced by 50% in PvP combat. Blessing of Dawn effectiveness reduced by 25% for Retribution Paladins in PvP combat. Divine Arbiter direct damage reduced by 25% in PvP combat. Vanguard of Justice effectiveness reduced by 25% in PvP combat. Empyrean Legacy increases the damage of Divine Storm by 15% in PvP combat (was 25%). Luminescence (PvP Talent) now increases damage and healing by 2% (was 4%). Lawbringer (PvP Talent) now deals 2% of maximum health (was 4%). Fixed an issue that caused Avenging Wrath’s 75% PvP multiplier to not function for Retribution Paladins.
I was able to defeat one with duelist gear today in duel with my F tier class. I finish with 3% HP. His healing was insane. xD
Good. I think most of these changes are on point. Also interesting to see that Avenging Wrath’s PvP nerf wasn’t working. Maybe it never was. That explains a lot. I like that they’ve mostly avoided nerfing baseline damage, and have instead focused on healing and damage modifiers. That’s the right move.
I very rarely call for nerfs. I used to do it a lot more often back in the day, but I’ve stopped. Except this time. I’ve never seen anything like this. I’ve never seen a class’s representation go up by 400% in a single week. The closest has to be season 5 Death Knights in WotLK. That got nerfed, too. It was so broken we just gave up and started singing inspector gadget every time we met one back then.
I don’t care that my class is on the bottom of the PvP representation for years any more - because winning is still very possible. But this was crazy. It wasn’t fun, straight up. But I think their ret redesign has great potential to be fun, so hopefully that will come to fruition now.
Seems like they’re implementing the nerfs to retri now:
Rather than on reset.
Can’t say that I mind. This was maddening.
There is some huge nerfs incoming xD
Yep, I don’t understand… actually I do, Blizz doesn’t give a F for balance pvp… It’s like no one tested it before the changes went live…
I entered in a BG yesterday, there were 6 paladins in my team and 7 in the other… Also, the arena is basically a paladin xitxow now…
Before we had DH, Rogue Assa, Hunter, Disc, etc unbalanced… Its really that difficult to balance stuff? It is not.
The worst thing is how everybody reroll to the Fotm class of the moment. That says alot of this community. People can’t just play whatever they like but need to play the most Broken things.
This really got me as well.
Have we just stopped caring about our characters, all of us? I mean, I suppose that must be the case given how often I see people complain about alt friendliness, but seriously! From 4% of the ladder to between 16% and 20% in 4 days. That’s not just the existing rets being better - that is an avalanche of FotM rerolling.
This did not happen when Feral Druids were overhauled. Wonder why. Big mystery. Overhauls can be exciting to be sure, and attract people. But no, this was far more than that.
Yes, it is.
Don’t misunderstand me - to see this ret problem coming was not hard, and indeed the community gave feedback during the beta. There was a lot of excitement and fear over them going live in the state that they did.
Nevertheless, PvP balance is very difficult. Different classes have different skill ceilings and floors. They work radically differently. Buffing one class may nerf another by proxy. Vice versa, too. Blizzard just tried to buff Frostbolt and nerf Glacial Spike because mages aren’t casting enough. We got to a place where we got rour Frostbolts from 30k to 110k despite it only being a 33% buff. Isn’t that funny? That’s talents for you.
And yet, despite all that it didn’t work. The reason it didn’t work is a combination of 20+ other abilities spread across every other class, many of them found in the new class trees.
That doesn’t sound easy to fix. Doesn’t sound easy at all. I’m not trying to say that it’s okay the game is this imbalanced though, but it’s still not easy. It requires dedicated resources - it’s not something you do as a side project.
I kind of understand you, but also… COME ON!.. If the company that has all the data, all the statistics, and money to build a team just to test and balance pvp… and still cant balance? Im not talking about the perfect balance, cuz this will be impossible, I’m just talking about no broken specs… Come on… It’s been almost 2 decades…
Yes indeed.
What you must understand is that past poor decisions by the class design teams has created a PvP that is… shall we say, broken? Busted? They broke it. In fact they spent considerable efforts breaking it. That’s not a defence, but it does mean we need overhauls, and when we get them… things are all over the place.
Class balance is the least of PvP’s problems. Its biggest problem by far is massive amounts of cooldowns with modifiers that make the game difficult to read, and therefore difficult to spectate. That instagib players and cause confusion. The need for addons to track diminishing returns. Visual clarity is at an all-time low. The game is practically arcane, and I don’t mean the spec.
There is still a lot of work to do. But, for the first time in ages, I feel like Blizzard knows what that work is - or at least has some clue. It’s very unfortunate that they overtuned ret though, given their intentions.
I simply want to check out the new retribution, see where it lands and if I like it or not.
Honestly I do believe that is the sentiment of most of the rerollers: Testing it for fun.
Kind of like when evokers were the new hot thing. You saw tons of them. Now, well, not as many by far. Same will happen with retribution. We try it out - see if we vibe with the new spec, then take it from there.
So it is not as much about current spec power (or how broken it is), but how it plays that is our focus.
Hey, I know retribution is unpopular right now in the PvP space. Yet, I really doubt that everyone or even close to the majority is doing it for FoTM power bubble.
We are simple people, with simple goals: To have fun and enjoy the game.
So this being the case, how come it didn’t happen with Druids? Oh yeah, it has! To the one spec that wasn’t changed at all, restoration. The other Druid specs actually fell in popularity. For monks it appears it didn’t make much difference.
Like I said before, an overhaul will cause some attention. I levelled my Druid up to try the new Feral. Lost interest because it’s still no fun due to the rotation changes and sound effects from long ago, but I was interested. Didn’t cause a 400% spike in Druids though.
I think almost everyone in my guild tried the new feral, to see how it would play and if they enjoyed it. So it did happen. Heck, feral was the talk of the town in every single WoW discord I am in.
You might not have noticed it as much, as it didn’t cause as many ripples in the water as Retribution in the PvP scene. But in the PvE, especially after the Great Push, ferals popped up in their thousands (que was filled with them) - all fresh new players - that want to see if they too will enjoy this spec that is now a viable option. Did they enjoy it? No, so they stopped playing it.
Well, not all. Still got some that to this very day are still playing feral. Something they would’ve never done without the druid reworks. Fun sidenote, even guardian is seeing a surge now as they gotten some changes that open other talent paths and different playstyles. They get tested, some enjoy them and keeps playing Guardian. Most don’t.
I expect in the end that to be the way of the Retribution too. Once the testing and prodding has been done. Most will fall back to what they enjoy the most. Be it Retri or their other class choices. The power level of Retribution will not be the deciding factor (why? Feral is strong, stupid strong - yet is avoided, because of playstyle).
Feral was stronger before the overhaul.
As I said before, an overhaul always garners a certain level of interest, but the feral overhaul wasn’t a 400% increase in representation in PvP and M+. Like I’m sorry, it just wasn’t. Not even for a short while. The reason we might not have noticed it as much, as you so eloquently put it, is that it simply didn’t happen.
Feral went from 1.2% representation to 2.9% representation. So not 400%, no. Yet a huge bump up, almost 300%.
I am sorry you dislike ferals so much. Yet, noone is going to disagree that ferals are less popular than Retribution paladin. Retribution Paladin is the fantasy Paladin people want after all. Anyone that has played Warcraft 3 want to play as Uther. Now, ferals? They go under the radar more, but don’t lie and say ferals didn’t get a enourmous boost in popularity to reinforce your own stance.
It did happen, I saw it happen and so did you if you played at the time. Feel free to ignore the matter. You really are fighting your own shadow and you set fire to facts to do so.
That’s not even a 200% increase, and even after this it was less popular than ret was before its buffs.
And it fell back down quite quickly. Without nerfs I might add.
So am I. I played it as a main from 2004 to 2017. What they have done to it makes me very sad.
I didn’t say that. However I did say that feral jumped from low to higher, whereas ret jumped from a little higher still to 1/5th of the whole darn ladder. May I politely suggest that you quit being this hilariously dishonest immediately? To even compare the two is an absurdity of the highest order. You just discovered the danger of percentages. A doubling from 1 to 2 players would be a 100% increase, but it’s actually pretty unremarkable next to that 200 people gang who got a 10% increase (20 players) - and even when you use that measure you’re still wrong.
2.9%, (or 155k) vs 1.2% (27k), is an increase of 570%. So yes, my numbers were wrong. They were far too low. These are not peek numbers, either. It probably was a lot higher.
Again, feral and retribution can not be directly be put against eachother. One is far more popular on a base level than the other. Yet - the pattern, the spike, the whole phase of people testing it, will be the same.
Same as happened with feral will happen with retribution. It gets tested, some will stay, others will go back to other classes. It hasn’t even been a week, retris are going back probably at the same rate as ferals did.
If you don’t remember the flood of kittycats. I really cant fight you at this point. There is no point. You even ignore cold hard numbers.
Finally, as you lost context of my point completely : People are testing it not because it is FotM, but because they want to test and see if it is fun. Once testing is done, the numbers will go down. Same as with every time these things happen. Be it feral or evoker.