The irony that never escapes me, is that almost all of these ‘Classic’ fans who come here to Bash Retail clearly can’t be enjoying it very much.
With the way they behave and word things, they clearly were -not- old enough to have played Vanilla, so their opinion is fairly safe to ignore.
They complain about Retail having no RPG elements to it, whilst a) not understanding what an RPG is, b) having the mistaken belief that Classic is an RPG and c) Generally having stupid names that don’t fit an RPG, the OP’s being a perfect example.
People tend to drag others down if things aren’t going their way, which is an unpleasant aspect of humanity that can be found in all walks of life. This means that life (or rather Classic) certainly isn’t meeting their expectations.
Classic fans don’t realise they are becoming a meme, like the stereotypical militant Vegan who everyone stops talking to at parties because they just can’t help but mention that they are Vegan every few minutes.
“I play Classic” “Cool bro, good for you, I played Vanilla first time round, pretty happy with the current game now” “No, you don’t get it! I play Classic” “Uh, yeah, you said that.” “Yes, but it is -Very- important that you know that I play Classic!” “Uhh, why?” “Because you don’t play Classic, you play Retail, therefore are a silly doo-doo head because Classic is so much Better!”
“Yeah, OK, I’m just going to go and talk to some interesting people instead”
Classic fan mutters to themselves under their breath as the social circle distances itself from them
“Don’t they understand? I play Classic”
“I play Classic”
“I play Classic”
They also have this mistaken idea that Classic is the same as Vanilla in every way, in which case I need to meet these people, I have this neat bridge to sell them.
“It’s more social!”
It really isn’t. It is worse than Retail in that regard. Two days into Classic’s launch, I saw someone with a female character name saying in chat that they enjoyed both Classic and Retail.
It went mental. a whole host of four letter words followed by ‘back to Retail’ from various posters, and the inventive, if utterly disgusting statement that they hoped she got unwillingly carnally violated by several dead dogs. (No, I’m not sure how that works either…)
The community there stinks, and you can see it in the fact that they feel the need to come here. There -is- no community over there. No people don’t ‘help each other out, like they used to in Vanilla’ That isn’t a thing. It wasn’t even a thing back then! We grouped up when we needed to, the same as…shocker! Retail!
It is also most emphatically -not- thriving.
The game mechanics were ludicrously easy to beat, to the extent that within 2 weeks of release (Yes really, and this on one of the two RP Classic realms!) End Content available had been completed by a Min-Max guild. At this point those who had actually -played- Vanilla were just like “Yeah, this is not what it was like” and ditched it. I stuck it out for another two weeks and then noticed how dead the world was becoming, with no one in it, and went “Yeah, blow this, back to the proper game”
Essentially it boils down to this…
If Classic is so -Good-, why do it’s Zealots feel the need to come here and proselytise?
The irony that never escapes me on the other hand is how you and a few others on this forum attack the OP and the Classic community instead of making some actually decent points as to why you think retail is better, or as to why you disagree with the OP’s views.
I too like Shadowlands, I really do, I think it’s a lot better than the last two expansions and I am having fun playing it and won’t stop. That being said, where do you see the guy or gal telling anyone that they’re doo-doo heads for liking retail? All he or she said was what he or she likes and doesn’t like, nothing more, and you and a few others immediately arrived and “told them off”. Nothing in your post actually has any substance, in fact. You came up with some anecdote of bad behavior from some lower IQ people, from which you inferred how the entire Classic community is, what classic players’ ages are, how Classic fans are a meme, and so on. Essentially, you’ve taken those exact jabs at the Classic community that you seem miffed that certain members take at the retail community, and which the OP actually didn’t take.
If anyone behaves like zealots here, it’s you and the few others who felt the need to attack the poster, not the post. That’s precisely what zealots do.
Probably because he is like a lot of other retail players and sick to the back teeth of constantly being told “retail is boring” by people who don’t even play it. The OP quite clearly stated he is simply killing time until TBC Classic. he could also easily kill time by playing Classic, but decided it would be more fun to play a game he hasn’t played for at least 4 years, and then complain he prefers Classic. Well that’s fine buddy, but did we need ANOTHER Classicer telling us how much he dislikes retail?
He did. the fact you disagreed with them and took it upon yourself to question the legitimacy of it does not remove the fact that he did give decent points.
That’s good, and I’m glad you are enjoying retail. Do you post on the Classic forums and tell them how dreadfully boring Classic is? Because that is what the OP is doing.
He already told you.
Because it is the same reaction retailers get from a lot of Classicers. But I’ve yet to hear Classicers come to retail forums and complain that retailers are making “bash classic posts” in their forum section.
yes it did.
Medicine always tastes sourer when you have to take it yourself.
They certainly don’t help themselves.
Everyone can be accused of being a zealot when their particular favourite thing is perceived to be under attack.
Wow major features are the same , dungeons . pvp . raiding ?! They are still in the game , yea sure they are trying to get ppl hooked up even more , but what online game doesn’t do that ?
I’m not going to go line by line to answer to you, because I would practically repost what I said earlier: he took one instance of bad behavior and from that constructed a straw man whereby he inferred how the entire classic community is, what their ages are, and so on. That’s not substance, that’s at best stupidity. I’ve seen bad behavior on retail realms as well, doesn’t mean it’s in any way representative for all of the retail community either.
First of all, I don’t exactly know what “constantly” means to you. I read the forums daily except weekends, and I see one post like this OP’s every month perhaps, not more frequent. Second, how do you know how much “they” play retail? Third, did you stop to consider that they might have stopped playing retail because to them it’s boring? Fourth, this “we” thing stems from an extremely misplaced sense of ownership; thus far, all of us WoW players, classic or retail or both, pay the same subscription, which provides us all with the same access to both games and their respective forums. There is no “we” who are being told whatever by some perceived “they” here, every single one of us is entitled to publicize their opinion on both games, good or bad. Don’t like the opinion? That’s fine, and I’ll give you that some posts made by people who like Classic and don’t like retail are indeed dumb, but the reverse is equally true.
I don’t, but for two reasons:
#1 I don’t think it’s dreadfully boring, so why would I post that it is? I think Classic is fine as it is for what it aims to be, and I’m glad it’s there for free as part of my sub should I want to play it at any point. #2 It is a remaster of an already completed incarnation of this game, so I am not expecting it to change in any way. It is what it is. Should they make a Classic+, that some players suggested at some point, with ongoing development, and if I would play it and found it boring, then yes, I would post my opinion that it’s boring. But this is not the case.
No, I reject that notion. You can defend what you like in a reasoned way, which is to provide your take on why you think it’s good, or you can be an obnoxious zealot and attack the people who dislike it instead of the reasoning they provide.
Of course you did, because you are using selective judgement. This one straight from my post history, but there were a lot more I remember, if you need to you can go digging yourself:
Then legion came and pruned hybrid from utility spells while rogues and mages get to keep their complete kits.
Paladin is basically auto attacks simulator. The same could be said aboot most of melee classes. Still, some people are still claiming it requires more skill than retail classes.
Not really, because the OP didn’t attack the players of retail, they simply stated what they don’t like about retail. It’s an opinion, there is no need to agree with it, but low quality replies aren’t exactly warranted.
Probably the same. Doesn’t make it right though. Besides, we’re perfectly fine with people criticizing retail as long as they don’t mention classic, but not fine when they mention classic? How does that work?
can you explain to me what is hard about classic leveling?
becuase i was leveling my shaman and only thing i noticed that i didn’t have mana
and that it’s slow
there was nothing hard about to kill something with 1-2 spells
I’m not hating i’m curious what is hard about classic leveling?
cause when you don’t use heirloom and just go there you will be surprised how different experience it is to lvl in retail.
Think you’ll find I kinda did, but sure, let’s go over it again, with some new ones.
“Retail isn’t an RPG whereas Classic is”
Is it though?
How many people who use the term RPG know what it stands for? ‘Role Playing Game’ Now we’ll leave aside the tangential issue that if you are not playing your character as opposed to just grinding and spamming dungeons you’re kind of missing the point, and skip straight onto…
Where do we go in WCIII that is part of the gameworld setting when controlling Arthas?
Why, we go to Northrend. Where is Northrend in Classic? Did it vanish? For an RPG to work, it has to have a defined setting. Adding new continents if there is a reason is fine. Outlands makes sense, it is a different planet. Gilneas made sense, you could see the hossing great wall at the south of Silverpine. Quel’thalas made less sense, but could make sense if you took the assumption that the Thalassian’s had raised Ban’dinoriel again (Which they might have) Cataclysm is Azeroth, Pandaria was shrouded in Mists, so unknown, even the Broken Isles make a modicum of sense, because no one would want to sail too close to the Maelstrom, which was a feature on the map right from the start. Northrend however? We went there in WCIII. It exists. We know it exists, we know it is not an -entirely- icy hellhole inhabited solely by the Scourge.
So basically Vanilla WoW is inconsistent, and if you have inconsistency to a degree that whole continents just vanish for no reason, then that is not an RPG.
Also show me an Archer who can carry more than a thousand arrows. Yet that is another ‘RPG element’ people say Retail lacks, that Classic has. What utter rot. What absolute nonsense. You can carry sixty maybe, ninety possibly, but at that point are pretty much an immobile sentry turret.
Classic actually has less RPG elements than Retail, if you have ever played Role Playing Games.
Graphics. Rubbish. Brilliant for their time, but not so brilliant 16 years later. Which is fine, because hey, tech advances in 16 years. Vanilla was awesome at it’s time, but now it is like that sort of person where you go “I bet you were really handsome/pretty when you were younger”.
Gameplay. Classic is a walking simulator. It is even worse than the Lord of the Rings trilogy for that. People complain about things taking ages these days? They don’t know they were born, Classic/Vanilla were exercises in masochism to some degree. Actual abilities? Retail has Classic knocked into a cocked hat. My idea of a fun combat system is being able to always do -something- at least, as opposed to sit there and wait for my character to be able to do -anything-, Some classes are excruciating to play in Classic. Early level Warrior is definitely one of them. “Right, I hit my enemy…I now need to wait till…Oh, they’ve hit me. Fair enough…Oh, I still can’t use an ability…Oh, they’ve hit me again…-Now- I can use my ability” It’s like Chess. I love Chess. I wouldn’t love Chess if I had to wait for my opponent to make two moves before I could make one.
“The world feels larger in Classic!”
No it doesn’t. I mean that simply isn’t possible, and is a palpable mistruth. Those zones that do exist in Classic are exactly the same size as they are now, in Retail. Nothing has changed. The world was actually significantly smaller in Classic, because it lacked some places and -Continents!- that we knew existed. It is cramped. Not larger. It may -seem- larger, due to the ‘walking simulator’ factor mentioned earlier.
“It got too far away from the Fantasy element and too much technology”
I can only presume those people never did the Gnomeregan dungeon in Vanilla…
“It has a better community!”
I think we kind of covered that one. It really does not. That example I gave? Yeah…Not the only example…not by a long chalk. It was constant in that first month after Classic launched. If you did not bow down and worship at the altar of our Lord and Saviour Classic, forsaking all others, then you got roundly insulted constantly.
People also don’t team up as much as Classic fans claim any more than they actually did in Vanilla!
It’s the same as Retail. People do, and will, when it serves their purposes to do so, unless they are in a Guild.
“Content was more challenging”
Really? Was it? Tell me how end-game content got cleared on an -RP REALM- within weeks of launch. That doesn’t sound like it was that challenging at all does it? It wasn’t more challenging back then. I remember. What -has- changed is this insane mentality of having to ‘beat’ the game as -fast- as possible. That however, is an evolution of gamer mentality, not games themselves. Some people seem to have forgotten how to play games for the sheer fun of it.
But then, we come to the real crux of the matter.
If Classic is that good…why aren’t people playing it? Why are they coming to the General Forums to bash Retail eh? What would be the purpose of that, I wonder? Could it be that they are a bit insecure about how the reboot is going, so are lashing out at people they have no logical reason to lash out at?
I mean please, explain to me the logic. How does that thought process work? “I don’t like X game, I do like Y game, I know, I’ll go and tell X game players that their game is rubbish! Because that is a mature and sensible thing to do!”
This is why I -highly- doubt that most Classic players actually played Vanilla. Let us assume they were the absolute minimum age to have played Vanilla, so 12. That would now make them 28. Most of the Classic Fanatics we get posting here do not seem to have the mental maturity of a 28 year old. (Though as someone who is 46 I can heartily agree that age does not guarantee maturity of attitude, thank goodness!)
No, I bet you’re not. Because you know he’s right. Also, never use that ‘Argument Types’ website, as a lot of their definitions are wrong, and badly worded. It is very easy to throw around terms like “Straw Man” if you are given your definition of the term by someone who doesn’t actually know what it means. Wasn’t a ‘Strawman’. The term you were looking for was ‘Empirical Evidence’. Which it most certainly was. Wasn’t a Strawman, -was- Empirical Evidence. Very useful term to remember, especially as it -is- an admissible term, that makes linguistic sense.
Also, you assume it was only -one- instance of bad behaviour…Oh my days…it was not just one…
I’m casting hard doubt on that claim. We get one every week, sometimes two or three a week, usually dressed up in a fur coat but wearing no knickers.
Weird how it is a one way process isn’t it? Because I -do- read the Classic forums, out of curiosity, and you never see this the other way around, so perhaps, what the question should be, is -why- do Classic players feel the need to bash Retail?
Why is that?
The Irony is strong here. I don’t see anyone proselytising about how Retail is better than Classic on the -Classic- forums, do you?
Who are the Zealots here?
There. Is that a better answer to satisfy your request?
Man i am actually a Archer!!
ill tell you how many arrows we carry , for one day hunt ill bring 4 arrows on my quiver , weekend ill bring 6 , one week ill bring 16…for 1 good day hike with bow on your back etc , you want the less amount of arrows possible , specially if you using some really heavy arrow setup , makes some diference…
On wow its pretty good depicted the draw cycle and release on some toons animations , imo the troll male is the best one that mimics that ,both stance and draw…
I actually did link the other dude one that I remembered because I answered to it. I saw quite a lot of others when I was reading the Classic subforum, so it is weird you want me to re-link the same thing I said in the very post you’re replying to.
Yes, definitely better, and I knew you’re capable to actually reply on point instead of the cheap and lame jabs at the community in your other post.
Still the people who argue against the person instead of the post. That part doesn’t change based on who does it.
I don’t see the need for the constant comparing between retail and classic. They are different games. It’s fine to like one more than the other. But why the constant need to make topics about it like it’s some competition?
Insecurity is what it basically boils down to and that nagging feeling people get when they go down nostalgia lane and if they’re being honest, will say “yeah this is an old… game… and it shows.”
It’s kinda like when I play Street Fighter IV then play SFII on my emulator. I spent hours… HOURS playing SFII, but when I compare it to SFIV, it doesn’t even come close.
And the communities I am in with Street Fighter, it’s very rare to see people throwing hissy fits over who had the better Ryu and you almost never see people telling others that SFII Ken was more fun to play, because the vast majority of the SF community know just how broken Ken was and treat such comments with the contempt it deserves.
It’s the same in the Quake community I’m in. A lot of people prefer Quake Champions over Quake 3. That’s their opinion and they are entitled to it. Personally, I prefer Quake 3. Again, and this seems to only happen in the WoW community with regular occurrence, the Quake 3 players don’t whine and make bait threads at Quake Championship players how dull their game is and they should play Quake 3 for “the proper quake experience”
The “quake experience” has been the same since Quake launched many a moon ago. If it moves you shoot it to death before it shoots you to death. (June 22, 1996 come to think of it… God I’m old.)
The “Street Fighter experience” is much the same, you try to KO your opponent before they KO you.
It just seems to me to be a major part of the WoW Classic community who has this constant need to tell the modern version of the game sucks in the retail forum when they have their own forum they can post such things in.
I mean really. We get at least one of these threads a week.
