Then you should have picked a different topic. 
Well, that is up to the people making the game.
If they feel like a change is needed, weâre going to get a change.
You can jump high and low, but at the end of the day we are playing their game.
We can of course share our feedback on it; whether positive or negative. But we donât get to dicate what game they should make. We can react by no longer giving them our money if we really disagree with their direction, but thatâs about it.
Started playing classic between solo queues (40min lol - no one wants to heal).
From a technical point of view retail is the better game.
But classic has something about its atmosphere i am severly missing in retail. Canât exactly tell what it is, but they build the world differently back then. Maybe itâs the simplicity.
The quests donât send me to emotionally support major characters, man and woman alike. Iâm not the champion.
Iâm just some hobo who is paid a nickel and is given the worn magic pants from the dumpster. And my tasks are killing severe amounts of forest trolls, rip out their tusks so that a goblin can sell them as counterfeit beast horns lol. Or I am tasked to slay a mountain of gorillas, collect their guts and throw them at a dude to spook him.
I miss the down to earth shenanigans quests.
In retail I stopped carrying for the lore long ago. On a regular basis i even forget what faction I play. Itâs an endgame simulator for me. I find it so boring that I would use the option to skip the leveling part and just straight jump into endgame.
Classic wonât compete for the modern audience. But honestly being killed by a bunch of murlocs humbles you real fast. Iâm missing this in retail where I kill gods for daily quests and have survived countless world ending events.
First they change the story to fit different characters and thats âbadâ now a character simply has too many traits. 
Several People made that point beforehand and i think you vastly underestimate the power of media. Books, Movies and nowadays Videogames have shaped and continue to shape society directly or indirectly.
Again my goal isn´t to take away from Female Roles. After all that was something i liked about Warcraft because it DIDN`T follow the social norms of it´s time and had and still has strong Female characters.
Imagine early Thrall, without his determination, preserverance and grit the Horde might´ve not gotten to Kalimdor in the first place and would´ve been stuck in intermentcamps under the yoke of the Alliance.
I 100% agree, with the caviat that if a Gamecompany wants to sell their product to 12 year olds, it has in my opinion an obligation/duty to these young impressionable minds.
That´s why i started this Thread, because i think it is important to show male characters who have their ish together instead of constantly working through some trauma, (AGAIN!) nothing wrong with characters like that in general, they´re equally important.
Sadly, men in WoW have been reduced to incompetent, pathetic weaklings.
Iâm a woman, and Iâve always enjoyed WoW story up until recently.
I like seeing amazing male heroes on screen, and most of the time Iâll roll my eyes when I see some forced female characters. (I donât like girl bosses. Itâs become so damn boring and annoying lately.)
Alleria is taking the spotlight heavily lately, whereas Turalyon is what⌠some sidekick who has 0 say in the story AGAINST VOID!
Almost ALL allied race leaders are female too xD itâs become comical at this point. I find myself going âHuh⌠where are all these badass guys?â
Who is âSocietyâ anyways? I dislike those abstract concepts because they simply dont exist. There are only individuals.
Itâs like when I see the news. I read âthe marketâ did X and Y. No it did not. Some greedy CEOs with first and last name took some actions and they had consequences. And they are getting away with it because we blame some abstract concept that dosent exist.
Look. There are only individuals. When I was 8 years old, I played street fighter and spent a week doing âhadoukenâ pretending like some energy would shoot from my palms. But now im an adult and I dont do that anymore.
However. Any adult that does has to get therapy. Because mentally, they are still 8 years old. There is no âsocietyâ anywhere in the picture. Only individuals (with first and last name) that fail to tell âchildishâ people that they take videogames too seriously.
I get where youâre coming from, but I think dismissing âsocietyâ as an abstract concept just because you don´t like it, misses a key point. Society isnât just a vague idea. Itâs made up of real systems, behaviors, and cultural influences that shape how people think and act. Sure, individuals are responsible for their actions, but things like media and video games have a huge cultural impact, whether we like it or not. Games arenât just âgamesâ they shape collective narratives, values, and even behavior.
That´s exactly why we have Institutions in Place to Monitor and Regulate Media, so that young Children are protected from Content that is considered harmful in a way, if you´re not mature enough to understand/appreciate it.
Itâs easy to say someone is âimmatureâ for getting lost in a game, but those games are part of a larger cultural context. So while we can hold individuals accountable, itâs also worth recognizing that what we consume impacts how we see the world, and that influence isnât something we can just ignore.
If you were right, it would invalidate all the hard work people put into representing a broader spectrum of society at large, like LGBTQ and Women in Media. All i´m arguing for is a Balance.
Or do you seriously want to tell me that no Media EVER, shaped the way you think? Sorry but i call BS on that one.
I never said I dont like âSocietyâ. I just said its an abstract concept that dosent exist. And your whole list of descriptions kinda proves my point. What systems? What behaviors? What cultural influences?
When people try to describe what society means, itâs always with vague terms. Same thing for defining âthe marketâ⌠Nobody is capable of actually taking a picture of âsocietyâ or âthe marketâ.
Let me articulate what I mean by âsociety dosent existâ:
You dont have to call that BS. Itâs true. I have seen things that shaped the way I (as in ME, with first and last name) thinks.
And just like me there are other people that got shaped as well. And toguether we are a collection of people, with first names and last names.
But we are not âsocietyâ. Just a collection of people. And that âlist of peopleâ cannot be treated as if it was a person itself. So âsocietyâ did not get shaped. A collection of people did.
So. If you want an analogy: People are balls. You put balls with similar traits in a box. But the box itself cannot be counted as a âballâ. The box is a box. Not a ball. So dont treat it as such.
I know itâs convenient to use the word âsocietyâ to describe the âboxâ full of balls. And thatâs fair. But people (you included) miss use the word so much, so often, that they forget that âsocietyâ is nothing more than a collection of individuals. Not an individual itself.
So this:
We can ignore some things. We should ignore some things. And we can and should hold people (with first and last name) accountable for their actions. Itâs as easy as that.
Because I, as an individual, can realize when things impact me and when they dont. I KNOW things shape my PoV. But I am an adult. And itâs expected from adults to realize this stuff and behave appropriately.
That is why:
We protect children that are NOT adults. But if some people behave like 8 year olds⌠well⌠they have a choice. Either they get treated like an 8 year old and have media regulated for them. Or they regulate it themselves like adults. And they will be held accountable for their individual actions, of course. Whatever they choose.
And for the record. I never mentioned society in the statement above. Just individuals. Because âsocietyâ dosent exist. Only a collection of individuals that need to grow up and behave like adults.
âSocietyâ has a definition. Itâs as easy as taking a look at Cambridge/Oxford dictionary for it. Itâs obviously basic because whatever it constitutes in detail depends on other variables.
I know it has a definition. Which is super, duper vague for a reason. Itâs vague because when you use the word âsocietyâ to describe something you have to specify what you are talking about.
You cant say: âSociety forces people to do Xâ for example. What does that even mean?
You have to say: âA group of individuals is forcing this other group of people to do X thingâ. THAT has meaning.
And itâs literally referring to the same exact action. But there is a stark difference. When you say some vague âsocietyâ you remove individual accountability. When you say the exact same thing, but you put âgroup of individualsâ instead, you dont.
Which is important.
Gender is just one variable among many that shapes a characterâs experience, not the primary organizing principle.
"This person faces X problem, has Y personality, makes Z choicesâ vs. âWe need X% of Y identity in Z roles to achieve proper balance.â
Then the actual problem is characters reading as similar. Women and men have different relationships to femininity/masculinity, power, vulnerability.
/s
Iâve completely checked out of all this societal noise.
Iâve tuned out of all the trends, debates and this constant pressure to fit into one box or another. I really donât care about whatâs acceptable or right anymore. Iâm just living my life doing the bare minimum to get by.
You have to follow some basic manners, say please, thank you, excuse me and the like but beyond that I donât have any interest in participating in societyâs drama or trends. Iâm done with the back andforth and the neverending shifting stories. The more I see of people and how things are going the more Iâm convinced a lot of people are headed down a very bad path and I donât want any part of it.
Do I claim to be some model of good citizenship? Not by a long shot.
Iâm barely holding it together myself right now because Iâm feeling completely frozen out and out of place, mostly by my own decisions. But itâs hard not to when you look around and see how people treat each other.
Itâs sickening, I canât be bothered to care.
I donât even know what Iâm talking about anymore, but I guess you can dig deeper into this whole thing if you want. I know Iâll probably get booted out of here if I do. But at the end of the day I see the same thing everywhere. Iâm not respected, Iâm not going to give it back.
Itâs not random or coincidence. Thereâs a huge divide between us and lets just say itâs part of the plan.
I see weâre pulling out the olâ whataboutism card.
Soceity exists. I think you might be digging yourself a hole so deep youâll be practicing hadouken from the bottom of it soon. 
Ok. Who is society then? Or should i simply take your word for it?
So lets say the following: Society is racist. Who do we put in jail? Or even better: Society is misogynist. Should we claim all men are responsible as a result?
Let me use a similar thing: The market caused the 2008 financial meltdown. Who do we put in jail for that?
Sadly the human race has been doing this since it first learned how to draw on cave walls.
And it will continue to do so.
Thatâs hardcore rationalization and ignorance.
WoW has elven warriors and sentinels portrayed through sisterhood with distinct cultural flavor, yet their gender isnât the point. Itâs texture in a larger story about duty, nature, and sacrifice. The male druids have their role, creating natural asymmetry without hierarchy.
Instead of making others responsibile for your lack of creativity and own inconsistencies, why arenât you tailoring your expectations to your circumstances? Itâs not like thereâs a shortage of games where you could fulfill your war fantasy with linear, traditionally madculine male characters.
Absolutely. Beefed up women that walk arround in a thong with high heels (true, check it⌠Its in the classic wow trailer)âŚ
Very feminine⌠For sureâŚ
Let me correct Ishayo: Sweaty hairy men AND hot half naked women. Killing each other.
Sound better to you? Or you want a screenshot of a ton of female protagonists⌠
Society is the machine that convinces people to destroy the planet and smile about it. Itâs the pressure that drives people to stab each other in the back for a promotion worth less than the paper the paycheck is printed on. Itâs the mass hallucination that debt is normal. That the news tells truth instead of whatever keeps them docile. Itâs individuals acting in predictable patterns because the system trains them to. You need enough people sleepwalking in the same direction. You donât need a CEO.
Itâs a tangled mess of incentives and norms.
Itâs like an atmosphere and also the arena.
So lets say the following: Society is racist. Who do we put in jail? Or even better: Society is misogynist. Should we claim all men are responsible as a result?
Well you canât jail society but society can be racist and misogynistic because society is the place where these norms are created. Society is the environment where it spreads but the responsibility are on the people who build and weaponize the environment.
The same way the blame for 2008 belongs to the Federal Reserve and the central banks and not the market. The market didnât cause it.