Rogue philosophy

[Kiirodinya-quelthalas]

I am SURE I wrote a post about rogues still not having been nerfed - was it deleted, removed or am I being censored?

In any case, what’s the philosophy behind “completely OP class that can make any other class feel helpless”?

Why are rogues allowed to stunkill other players without them being able to even hurt them back? Only a big group can handle a rogue, but 1 vs. 1, NOTHING can do anything. I presume Paladin can survive a bit longer, of but every class I have tried so far;

• Shaman has been able to “Handle” a rogue sometimes A BIT, but not always, and not that much, and if a rogue wants it dead, my shaman is dead.

• Tank DH has been able to sometimes escape a rogue

• Warrior has been able to sometimes kill a rogue, with help - and with the jump, it can sometimes escape, but usually not

We were in Arathi Basin, and I was guarding GM. I was stealthed, but rogues can always somehow see a DH in stealth, so that’s completely useless (should be proper invisibility, like druids have, but even then, rogues can probably see it, so at least THIS ability should be nerfed, so rogues can’t ALWAYS surprise someone in stealth).

Suddenly I was SAPped, and I started calling inc, but no one came, I tried to survive as long as I could, or even hurt the rogue back, but in of the 2% of the time I was able to spend outside stun, my punches didn’t have much effect, and Rain from Above was of course only prolonging the painful stunkill-death, because the rogue just vanished, and of course came back immediately when I landed.

DH is supposedly able to do something about rogues, so DHs are not ‘allowed’ to complain about rogues, but this is completely insane. Has anyone ever really played DH against a rogue? If there IS something a DH can do, I’d like to know it. I haven’t been able to figure it out so far.

The only thing I can do is die quickly in stun. The other thing is Rain from Above, IF I am able to use it, but that’s useless, because rogue just vanishes. The third thing is ‘spectral sight’, which is ONLY useful if I somehow know to use it before I am attacked, AND have fast enough reflexes to shoot a glaive and imprison the rogue before it SAPs me for 7 seconds.

So basically that’s useless too, because by the time I can use it, I am already sapped or dead.

Rogues should be nerfed, but for some reason, my whole topic about it was deleted, although I told my story about my warrior being stunkilled by a completely unstoppable, OP rogue (aren’t they all?) without being able to do anything.

If you’re going to make one class 100 x more powerful than anything else (and it might be even more than 100 x), at least give other classes a chance to OPT OUT of being stunkilled by it, ok?

Just give every other class a ‘rogue immunity’ spell, some kind of teleportation to a random location and not being able to be selected or targeted by rogues for 2 minutes after that, or something, so they can’t know where you are until you’ve escaped or healed or both.

Or just some super jump away from the rogue, that also stuns the rogue (without them being able to escape the stun) for 30 seconds or whatnot.

Just SOMETHING to make them at least consider NOT attacking you. Right now, there is no reason for rogue to not attack, and every incentive to do so.

If a class can stealth SO much and stun SO much, at least make it WEAK, so we can kill it quickly. If a class can be FAST, make it WEAK. There’s no reason to make a class that’s fast, strong, stunny, stealthy and can poison you so you can’t ever stealth if it dots you.

Come on, give us a break with these stupid rogues, I can’t understand why they’re allowed to not be nerfed at all for all these years. No class should have ganking impunity, there’s so much that could be done about this problem, just like every other problem, but nothing is being done.

Is ‘classic’ supposed to fix all these problems?

Just remove the problems from the game, and this could be a really fantastic experience!

Hm… now that I think about it, could my post have been removed, because I happened to mention that the ‘other europeans’ could be a problem?

[Mêphâlâ-argent-dawn (Mêphâlâ)]

At this point it should be a crystal clear that whoever stands behind rogues class design is very enthusiastic about rogues utilities in and out of combat, bbecause in the course of last Xpacs rogues hasn’t been pruned as hard as warlocks for example, and most of changes for rogues was not direct prune but something like quality of life improvements.
I as a warlock has lost over 15 spells during last Xpacs, most of my core abilities is now in talents, and with that i have lost good chunk of useful talents that was there before. My very core damage dealing spells “Sometimes… It doesn’t just work © Todd Howard”.

PET AI DELAY

look at dreadstalkers delay after their jump. And all my demons - my main core abilities has same issue.

And while i as warlock was broke in legion, rogues was given the only one thing that they didn’t had before legion xpac - direct self healing ability - crimson vial.
With this spell, rogues toolkit has became complete, just look at this:

1. Burst damage - check
2. Pressure damage - check
3. Active mobility - check

• Sprint
• shadowstep
• Grapling hook
• Blade rush(talent)

4. Passive mobility - check
5. Stealth - check
6. CC - check

• Stuns - check
• Disarms - check
• Disoreointation - check
• Sap- check
• Slows Stuns - check
• Disarms - check
• Disoreointation - check
• Sap- check

7. Self-healing - check
8. Team utility
9. Escape spells.
10. Anti-melee defences
11. Anti-caster defences

And most infuriating thing in comparison to other classes, is that all that class toolkit is baseline for rogues (exept blade rush). While i as warlock must gather all scarps of my toolkit from the talents, while rogue’s talents is made for improving baseline toolkit or adding new abilities. Right now, rogues have zero downsights as the class, DH was a perfect counter for rogues in legion, but in BFA DH is just rough damage dealers.

@Mêphâlâ-argent-dawn

Look how Warlocks design idea was maintained trough couse of Xpacs - A slow caster, with variety of demons to serve, with wast self-fealing capabilities, and wast CC toolkit.
And now what we have?
Slow - Check
variety of demons to serve - check, but nerfed and pruned as hell.
Self-healing - pruned.
CC - pruned.
How Rogues design idea was maintained trough couse of Xpacs - a high risk - high reward damage dealer, with cast CC capabilities, and good mobility, with no self-healing mechanics.
Mobility - was improved significantly over the couse of Xpacs
CC - was improved significantly over the couse of Xpacs.
high risk - high reward style - now it is a “no risk - high reward” class.
no self-healing mechanics - no self-healing mechanics - now has good self healing tools.

What the hell is this?
While i as warlock lost whole mechanics like metamorphosis, that was given in slightly diffirent form to the Spriest, my healing tools “healthstone was transformed into healing potion, with same restrictions(1 use per combat)” while rogues has recieved a crimson vial - a 30% healing spell on 30 seconds CD. While i lost half of my CC abilities, and that was left baseline was nerfed to the ground like shadowfury is now castable, and fear now breaks from 1 point of damage, rogues CC was left intact or was being improved. My baseline escape spell - demonic circle was made into a talent, while rogues has recieved new talents to improve their current mobility or add new ones.

Yes Destro damage is broken, but what destro would be if chaosbolt will be nerfed? Like in Legion affli was good only because of overpowered self-heals, destro now good only because of chaosbold damage. I would like to rebalance our damage, but only if we as warlocks will recieve a well-thought rework, because right now, my class is nerfed, pruned and just broken. And see how classes as mages/rogues was improved and polished, makes me to quiestion blizzard class design team.

[Moonsea-shattered-hand]

Rogues don’t have enhanced stealth detection as a class, not sure where you’re getting that from. Every class can increase their chances of detecting stealth with the battleground potion.

#showtooltip Sap
/console targetNearestDistance 10.000000
/targetenemy [noharm][dead]
/console targetNearestDistance 41.000000
/cast [harm,nodead] Sap

Probably a bit dated code-wise but that is the button I spam when I suspect there might be a stealthy class around. Substitute Sap for some other instant ability. Doesn’t work as well as it used to but it does work.

[Sylvare-argent-dawn (Sylvare)]

@Kiirodinya-quelthalas

I am SURE I wrote a post about rogues still not having been nerfed - was it deleted, removed or am I being censored?

Literally one of the first items on your history list

Rogues HAVE to be nerfed

This is a rant. Do NOT expect a civil, tolerable, reasonable, normal, easy-to-digest post. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED. I don’t see HOW these rogues even came about, WHO is responsible for this, but it’s like the most annoying thing in any game EVER. Now, I have played MANY games in my time. You could say it’s SO many, it’s unquantifiable, so it’s A LOT. All kinds of games, from all kinds of very old, very new and systems inbetween. There have been very flawed games, flawed game mechanics in many …

[Cróws-defias-brotherhood (Cróws)]

You’re trolling right?

[Irelsia-argent-dawn (Irelsia)]

@Kiirodinya-quelthalas

I am SURE I wrote a post about rogues still not having been nerfed - was it deleted, removed or am I being censored?

Well I keep reporting your facebook posts for spam, so, hopefully.

[Khooba-argent-dawn]

I understand why you are concerned about this but in my personal experience Rogue isn’t that hard to beat.

Yeah thex can CC you for long and if they set up correctly they can do some crazy damage however their CC doesn’t last forever and they are pretty squish.

Try to keep them away from yourself and try to live long enough so you don’t get demolished after they vanish.

I can understand this can be hard for DH since the class is glass cannon but I’d actually dare to say that Paladins are far more deadly.

Anyway try to use CC and your mobility and do not open burst on them unless you know they can’t vanish or cloak, hope this might help at least a little.

[Unfairless-silvermoon]

If rogue does not want to die then he will NOT.
Vanish , evasion , sprint , cloak , preparation and reset them all.
In the past almost all classes had a way to deal with them.
Example as arms war , we had second wind that was activating once we get stunned or rooted in place , blood craze once we receive a critical strike ( vanilla to end of wrath ) and in cata got changed into a % chance when we take a damage ability to heal us. Also when blizz gave warriors enraged regen in wrath was sweet.
And right now we have nothing of these left so we cannot survive any 1v1 and our only chance is to go fury ( syka blyat spec ) .
Some classes kept their abilitys while others got pruned so hard that they are barely able to stand in 1v1 and especially vs those less unpruned classes as mage and rogue.

[Ланабеникова-gordunni (Ланабеникова)]

On 1v1 my warrior always kills a rogue

Warrior good against elemental and boomie , range dps while rogue is more stun spec. A warrior will always kill a mage , boomie or hunter etc. Because they have a skill without cd which makes ranged classes cant run anymore.

[Areseza-silvermoon]

Unfairless preparation really???
How long has it been since you played Rogue?
Rogue is so squishy , only time its fun if you Play outlaw and use drink up me hearties and iron stomach , you can actually stay abit out in the open then…

[Ланабеникова-gordunni (Ланабеникова)]

I completely agree

[Subversòr-outland]

I can kill rogue 1v1 as mage so you should be able to as DH you can get them out of stealth